Did Vonage give NSA our phone records?

Posts: 30 · Vonage Forum Junior Joined: Apr 14, 2005 Posts: 30

booma wrote:

Let's have trust in our government to protect us. If that means making certain records available to them, then so be it! he government has built in checks and balances to assure we protect our freedoms. Let the system work...

I don't trust greedy assed politicians to protect anything but their own "Special interests" They don't serve the people any more. The government hasn't served the people in decades. They serve themselves and the "United Corporations of America" The democracy that you all think you live in is gone and has been since we turned the economy over to the Federal Reserve Bank. Which is NOT a government entity but a private firm. Look into it. The FED owns the USA lock stock and barrel. They create money out of nothing and loan it to the USA then we have to pay it back at face value plus interest. That's where the interest rate goes to. Not even the income tax can even pay the full percentage of interest every year.

Once the USA goes bankrupt, which will happen when the oil countries start trading in EURO's (Iran is now trading in EURO's which is the real reason for the USA going to war with Iran in the next few months) The value of the dollar will plummet and the USA will die a horrible death worse than The Great Depression. It's just around the corner.

Magicman

Posts: 1123 · Vonage Forum **MVM** Joined: May 26, 2005 Posts: 1123

My my, paranoid much? Lay off the reefer. Lol

Posts: 152 · Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:30 am Post subject:

scerruti wrote:

... we learn Vonage will not give out your calling data without a subpoena.

Hooray for Vonage. Kinda makes up for their terrible technical support.

Posts: 30 · Vonage Forum Junior Joined: Apr 14, 2005 Posts: 30

navydavy2001 wrote:

My my, paranoid much? Lay off the reefer. Lol

Do some research.. It's all out there. Plus for your information I haven't ever touched any drugs and never even had a drink. I'm a strict Mormon, if you do work for the government then you'd know that they hire a ton of Mormons for the NSA, secret service, and so forth. Mostly for our clean living and patriotic nature. The largest concentration of Mormons on the East Coast is in the DC area. I love this country. In fact my 5th and 6th great grandfathers are John Adams and John Q Adams. I just lived in DC for far too long and have seen too much to trust any of our so called "elected" officials.

All of the great civilizations last just around 200 years before they collapse. It's a statistical and historical fact.

Magicman

Posts: 3 · New Forum Member Joined: Apr 30, 2006 Posts: 3

mrmagic526 wrote:

If you give them an inch they'll take a mile. Don't give up any of your freedoms or soon we'll be like the old USSR or old Germany. The real terrorists are the ones using FEAR to keep the citizens in line. 9/11 was the greatest lie of the century.

I guess his attitude is correct for a follow the leaders blindly without question mentality that they instill in the military folks. Never question, never think for yourselves. THINK for yourself, it makes the government nervous.

Magicman
----------------------------------------------------------
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Ben Franklin

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." Dr. Martin Luther King

“If all that Americans want is security, they can go to prison. They'll have enough to eat, a bed and a roof over their heads”-- Dwight Eisenhower - 12/8/49

" If the people ever found out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched". George Bush Sr.

"That we are to stand by the President right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt

I am an older male and work for a county government and have seen firsthand where people with nothing to hide got into trouble because of these wiretaps. My office is in a community college and the school started receiving calls from the FBI who finally become frustrated because they had tap into an Intranet where students were doing their class work. This had to be domestic communication because it was Intranet not Internet. Once someone is falsely charged they never get their reputation back.

In the case of 911, there are many unanswered questions and this event has been used to install fear into people, so no one asks questions. One I have is why is Empire State Building still standing since it was hit by a B 52 in the late 40's or early 50's destroying just a few floors. I have worked with metals and know that to have a flame hot enough to melt still the flame does not produce black smoke and every view I have seen black smoke is rolling out of both buildings. Just something to think about it when you light a cutting torch you can hold it on steel forever and the steel will not melt until you add oxygen and obtain a blue flame that does not give off black smoke.

Another thing that is scary is a military person heading any civilian agency because if ordered to present false information, a military person has to honor the order or face severe consequences.

Way this country is going, I am glad my life is getting closer to the end instead of just starting. I said enough to loose my job in this post and probably enough to be put on a watch list.

Posts: 30 · Vonage Forum Junior Joined: Apr 14, 2005 Posts: 30

There's a video showing the sparks falling from thermite that was used to cut the support beams. Thermite is a mixture of aluminum dust and iron oxide (rust) which when burned leaves behind molten steel which was found in the basement of the towers 3 weeks later.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2991254740145858863&q=cameraplanet%2B9%2F11&pr=goog-sl

In photos of the rubble you can see the end of the support columns with melted steel residue running down from where they were cut with thermite. This is on 9.11 before anyone could have cut the support beams with blow torches. Plus just before the buildings fell there was white smoke coming from the base of the towers. It's in all the clips but with the misdirection of the buildings falling people don't pay attention to it. White smoke is characteristic of a thermite reaction.

The falling burning mass in the above video looks exactly like a thermite reaction. I saw a video where they put a flowerpot containing thermite on top of the hood of a car and when ignited it burned through the flowerpot and then burned a hole all the way through the engine block of the car. Melted a hole straight through a block of steel. They then put one on the roof of the car and it burned all the way through to the gas tank which was full then the car exploaded. The falling burning thermite was a bright orange burning metal that looked exactly like the falling burning metal in the twin tower video above. Aircraft aluminum burns white not orange. Plus this gives a logical reason for the literally tons of molten steel found in the basements of both towers weeks later.

Magicman

Posts: 1123 · Vonage Forum **MVM** Joined: May 26, 2005 Posts: 1123

And with that, Dan, I think this thread has reached the "jumped the shark" point.

Posts: 229 · Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:41 am Post subject:

navydavy2001 wrote:

Who gives a crap, anyway. If NSA wants to listen to my wife talk to her mother 800,000 times day, let em! Very Happy

Because NSA doesn't have an automatic right to invade either your wife's or her mother's right to privacy. This is no different than a government agent deciding that he or she has a right to sit in your bed and listen to you and your wife's pillow talk.

Certainly you wouldn't let them do that, would you? I know I would not.

Posts: 229

bigmacnc wrote:

In the case of 911, there are many unanswered questions and this event has been used to install fear into people, so no one asks questions. One I have is why is Empire State Building still standing since it was hit by a B 52 in the late 40's or early 50's destroying just a few floors. I have worked with metals and know that to have a flame hot enough to melt still the flame does not produce black smoke and every view I have seen black smoke is rolling out of both buildings. Just something to think about it when you light a cutting torch you can hold it on steel forever and the steel will not melt until you add oxygen and obtain a blue flame that does not give off black smoke.

Maybe just me - I assumed the black smoke was from burning jet fuel and other flammables in the building such as carpeting, office furniture, computers, office equipment, wiring, etc.

Also consider that the B-52 is a much smaller plane than a commercial jetliner, and that it is a propeller plane rather than a jet plane. Also consider that the jetliners were completely full of fuel so that it could fly non-stop from one end of the country to the other, something that a B-52 could not do.

Had a jet hit the ESB, I wouldn't have expected it to last any longer t han the Twin Towers did.

Posts: 229 · Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:08 am Post subject:

ogman wrote:

navydavy2001 wrote:

If you're not doing anything illegal, why worry? Something to hide? Very Happy

That kind of answer will kill off your freedom in a hurry. The obvious reason you should care is that somewhere down the line the wrong people might be determining what is legal or illegal. Best if you haven't given away too many rights at that point.

The question should not be whether or not I have something to hide, but whether the government has a valid reason to invade my right to privacy. If the government believes that I truly am a terrorist, the law does give them the right to follow up on that and see. But going to a phone company and asking them to be able to snoop on everybody WITHOUT an order from a judge? That's not investigating whether a few people are terrorists, that is what they call "fishing for evidence", and it is illegal.

Silly me, I demand that the government follows the laws that it creates, both in spirit and in body, rather than try to find ways to evade the laws it creates.