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68rustang
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Posts: 20

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:00 pm    Post subject: Choppy inbound calls when using Limewire Reply with quote Back to top

The subject line pretty well sums it up. If I am running limewire and downloading files my inbound calls are very choppy. Interestingly enough the caller can hear me just fine.

My set-up is as follows:

Motorola SB5100 -> D-Link DI-524 -> PAP2

The computer running limewire is plugged directly into the DI-524. I am running LImewire Pro 4.10. It will allow me to limit my download bandwidth between 0 and 49 kbps and then unlimited. If I set my download bandwidth to 49 everything is fine with Vonage but my downloads are slow. I have cable so I have a whole lot of bandwidth to spare when limiting to 49 kbps.

Initially I was going to implement a router with QOS. Further reading leads to believe that that will not help since my problem is with my inbound not my outbound. Is that correct?

Tonight I am going to set the PAP2 port to be in the DMZ of the DI-524 and see if that changes anything.
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reebok
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

you're downloading a lot and not uploading much. that sums it up right there. their voice comes to you (you download it) and your voice goes to them (you upload it) what are you primarily doing on limewire? downloading of course.
I'm not familiar with the qos devices you can buy, hawking makes one I believe, but I assume you have already been to their website and read the user manual to know exactly what it can and can't do before posting.
I'm surprised limewire has such limited bandwidth options. it would be pretty simple to adjust that. I would complain to the programmers, especially if you had to buy it.
the dmz shouldn't theoretically make a difference, but now it will since I said that.
at any rate, routers with qos focus on upload bandwidth since it's very small in relation to download bandwidth for most users. I would look more into the qos devices to make sure you know what they can do, or you can look into a traffic shaper if you have a spare box you want to throw linux on and use something like moonwall.

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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

http://vonage.nmhoy.net/qos.html

Sorry, there's not a QoS box in the world that's going to help you with download. You'd have to be able to influence the data being queued to your modem from the ISP side, and that ain't gonna happen.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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68rustang
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

reebok wrote:
I'm surprised limewire has such limited bandwidth options. it would be pretty simple to adjust that...


I found a tutorial last night about fine tuning limewire to optimize network traffic. I haven't had a chance to implement any of it yet though. Something about bits and bytes...

I would post the link but the site is down right now.

Quote:
the dmz shouldn't theoretically make a difference, but now it will since I said that.


I know in theory it shouldn't but everything i read about choppy calls on this forum mentions setting the PAP2 in the DMZ, so I figured why not.

Quote:
You can look into a traffic shaper if you have a spare box you want to throw linux on and use something like moonwall.


I have a spare 800 mHz box laying here that I was thinking about trying if simply tuning limewire doesn't work.

NateHoy wrote:
http://vonage.nmhoy.net/qos.html

Sorry, there's not a QoS box in the world that's going to help you with download. You'd have to be able to influence the data being queued to your modem from the ISP side, and that ain't gonna happen.


That is pretty much what I found out researching QOS devices. Actually it was I was reading your site. It had all the info I needed to realize QOS wouldn't solve it, thank you for that.

Thanks to both of you for the input, I will update the thread when and if I figure anything out.
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68rustang
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It seems that the issue is not just when downloading files. Almost all of my inbound calls are now choppy. Where do I start?

I tested my connection a few time at www.testyourip.com and came out with 3.9's and 4.4's. I would post screenshots but my ftp isn't cooperating this evening.
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VonageTPA
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Easy one... Turn off Limewire, wait for ~5-10 minutes for the residual limewire activity to taper off, power off the DLink router for ~30 seconds and power it back up. Programs like Limewire & BitTorrent totally oversaturate many routers.

The Linksys 524 router is a known bad router for peer-to-peer programs:
http://azureus.aelitis.com/wiki/index.php/Bad_routers

_________________
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Vonage: Linksys RTP300
Router: IPCop 1.4.10
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Total calls since Jul 24, 2005: 4,794 calls
Total Minutes since Jul 24, 2005: 25,552 minutes
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68rustang
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Not so easy.

Problem was not associated only with heavy downloads. After talking to tech support I bypassed the DI-524 and plugged the PAP2 directly into the modem. Still had issues. Called tech support again, they "adjusted things on their end" bandwidth and packet size is what they told me. I rebooted and so far the one phonecall I have received wasn't choppy but sound quality was equivalent of a walkie-talkie.

The jury is still out.

As far as the DI-524 being bad for P2P. It is confusing to configure if you are used to LInksys like I am, but other that that I haven't had any issues.
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VonageTPA
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

68rustang wrote:
Problem was not associated only with heavy downloads.


If my theory is right, it'd happen any time you try to use your PAP2 during or AFTER using Limewire until you reboot the DLink and let it clear out its routing tables. It's just not up to the task of handling THAT many connections.

Quote:
Called tech support again, they "adjusted things on their end" bandwidth and packet size is what they told me. I rebooted and so far the one phonecall I have received wasn't choppy but sound quality was equivalent of a walkie-talkie.


Reducing your bandwidth setting would cause the walkie-talkie sounding calls. You can undo that setting by logging into your Vonage account on the website and going to the Features tab. In there, you'll see Bandwidth Saver, which the tech probably set to the lowest bandwidth setting.


Quote:
As far as the DI-524 being bad for P2P. It is confusing to configure if you are used to LInksys like I am, but other that that I haven't had any issues.


I've never used one, BUT, word on the rest of the 'net is that it doesn't handle P2P very well. There aren't many which do, but that particular model is singled out as being one of the worst offenders. Depending on how the router's firmware is designed, it may have trouble handling Voip if it keeps track of individual packets, as Voip sends out a ton of them, especially if Vonage sets the packetization to a low number.

_________________
ISP: Varies depending where I'm at.
Vonage: Linksys RTP300
Router: IPCop 1.4.10
Phones: various
Total calls since Jul 24, 2005: 4,794 calls
Total Minutes since Jul 24, 2005: 25,552 minutes
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68rustang
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

VonageTPA wrote:

If my theory is right, it'd happen any time you try to use your PAP2 during or AFTER using Limewire until you reboot the DLink and let it clear out its routing tables. It's just not up to the task of handling THAT many connections.


I still do not think it has anything to do with Limewire, yes that is when I first noticed it, but that is also the last time I used it. Since then, LW has been shutdown and the modem, PAP2, and DI-524 have all been rebooted a number of times to try and solve the problem. I even took the DI-524 out of the loop and had the PAP2 connected directly to the modem, still choppy.

Quote:

Reducing your bandwidth setting would cause the walkie-talkie sounding calls. You can undo that setting by logging into your Vonage account on the website and going to the Features tab. In there, you'll see Bandwidth Saver, which the tech probably set to the lowest bandwidth setting.


I would have assumed they turned the bandwidth saver from "Normal" where I had it, to "Lower", as well but they did the opposite. After talking to the tech I logged in and they had set it to "higher."

Quote:
I've never used one, BUT, word on the rest of the 'net is that it doesn't handle P2P very well. There aren't many which do, but that particular model is singled out as being one of the worst offenders. Depending on how the router's firmware is designed, it may have trouble handling Voip if it keeps track of individual packets, as Voip sends out a ton of them, especially if Vonage sets the packetization to a low number.


Anymore info about which routers are any good for this? The tech did set the packet size higher when I talked to him.
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VonageTPA
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

What happens when you go to www.testmyvoip.com ? (cut & paste the detailed results, if you could).

_________________
ISP: Varies depending where I'm at.
Vonage: Linksys RTP300
Router: IPCop 1.4.10
Phones: various
Total calls since Jul 24, 2005: 4,794 calls
Total Minutes since Jul 24, 2005: 25,552 minutes
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