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Post new topic   Reply to topic  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Forum Archive
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KnckrBckr
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Joined: Mar 22, 2006
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Seagrape49 wrote:
Vonage over BTL's network not working or working badly.
Vonage over Direcway, about a good as expected.

2 other Voip services over BTL are working fine. BTL tech swears they are not blocking Voip. Claims if they were blocking, it would not work sporadically, rather it would not work at all. Perhaps this is a Vonage problem.


Which other ones are working? I know Skype is working at the moment, but if you look around the Belize boards for the last several months, you will see the Skype users and users of basically every other Voip app (ATA or PC based) are having issues.

Indeed folks at BTL are saying they are not "blocking". Maybe this is true. It's kinda like Karl Rove saying that he didn't commit a crime because he didn't "knowlingly" blow the cover of a CIA agent. Well, I guess it's sort of like that.

The questions to BTL should be "Are you blocking, filtering or otherwise disrupting voice over IP traffic in any way for any service?" If the answer is continually "no", then since this is a ISP-wide (country-wide) issue, I would presume it is some other mis-configuration ineptness on their part that is causing the issues.

Let me be clear - I think BTL is a good company. I have friends at the local level and contacts in the city. They are knowlegdable and professional. Rumor has it they are coming out with their own Voip offering and I will sincerely consider it. At the moment, I still think this is something on the BTL IP network that is causing this.

As for satellite, I am not there yet... maybe someday.
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kikibz
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:23 pm    Post subject: BTL not blocking VoIP? Reply with quote Back to top

Seagreap do not belive BTL Technician, they can easily degrade Voip without completely blocking it.
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KnckrBckr
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Joined: Mar 22, 2006
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: TCPDUMPs Continued Reply with quote Back to top

Here are some more tcpdumps, these are from the PAP2 ATA boot sequence. Note the "unreachable" messages, not sure if this is part of the problem, but someone here might...

Command

sudo tcpdump -i {ext_interface} host 192.168.2XX.XX and not port syslog

(vonage has had the PAP2 in debug mode so I stripped out the syslog packets)


{ UNPLUG & PLUG in PAP2 ATA }

Layer 2 (DHCP / ARP)

09:38:47.073033 192.168.2XX.X.bootps > 192.168.2XX.XX.bootpc: xid:0x200a39d9 secs:2 Y:192.168.2XX.XX S:192.168.2XX.X [|bootp] [tos 0x10]
09:38:47.231637 192.168.2XX.X.bootps > 192.168.2XX.XX.bootpc: xid:0x200a39d9 secs:2 Y:192.168.2XX.XX S:192.168.2XX.X [|bootp] [tos 0x10]
09:38:47.231900 arp who-has 192.168.2XX.XX tell 192.168.2XX.XX
09:38:47.480138 arp who-has 192.168.2XX.XX tell 192.168.2XX.XX
09:38:47.490672 arp who-has 192.168.2XX.X tell 192.168.2XX.XX
09:38:47.490780 arp reply 192.168.2XX.X is-at 0:2:6f:21:fa:21

DNS Lookup & Response

09:38:47.570486 192.168.2XX.XX.64514 > dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain: 1+ A? d.voncp.com. (29)
09:38:48.570099 192.168.2XX.XX.64514 > dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain: 1+ A? d.voncp.com. (29)
09:38:48.751478 192.168.2XX.XX.56542 > dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain: 1+ A? time.vonage.net. (33)
09:38:48.910389 dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain > 192.168.2XX.XX.64514: 1*- 4/3/2 A 69.59.252.35,[|domain] (DF)

The rest of the boot process

09:38:48.920186 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX > 69.59.252.35.10XXX: udp 546 [tos 0x68]
09:38:49.750093 192.168.2XX.XX.56542 > dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain: 1+ A? time.vonage.net. (33)
09:38:49.790400 dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain > 192.168.2XX.XX.64514: 1*- 4/3/2 A 69.59.227.87,[|domain] (DF)
09:38:49.790532 192.168.2XX.XX > dns1-nyc.vonage.net: icmp: 192.168.2XX.XX udp port 64514 unreachable
09:38:49.950897 dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain > 192.168.2XX.XX.56542: 1*- 2/3/2 A 216.115.23.75, (185) (DF)
09:38:49.960748 192.168.2XX.XX.24002 > 216.115.23.75.ntp: v3 client strat 0 poll 10 prec 0
09:38:50.150350 69.59.252.35.10XXX > 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX: udp 507 (DF)
09:38:50.161967 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX > 69.59.252.35.10XXX: udp 719 [tos 0x68]
09:38:51.017717 dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain > 192.168.2XX.XX.56542: 1*- 2/3/2 A 216.115.23.76, (185) (DF)
09:38:51.018211 192.168.2XX.XX > dns1-nyc.vonage.net: icmp: 192.168.2XX.XX udp port 56542 unreachable
09:38:51.160868 216.115.23.75.ntp > 192.168.2XX.XX.24002: v3 server strat 2 poll 10 prec -7 (DF)
09:38:51.380931 69.59.252.35.10XXX > 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX: udp 389 (DF)
09:39:08.390594 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX > 69.59.252.35.10XXX: udp 719 [tos 0x68]
09:39:09.580351 69.59.252.35.10XXX > 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX: udp 389 (DF)
09:39:23.960200 192.168.2XX.XX.44907 > dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain: 1+ A? ls.tftp.vonage.net. (36)
09:39:24.960096 192.168.2XX.XX.44907 > dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain: 1+ A? ls.tftp.vonage.net. (36)
09:39:25.170431 dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain > 192.168.2XX.XX.44907: 1*- 15/3/2 CNAME tftp.vonage.net.,[|domain] (DF)
09:39:25.182577 192.168.2XX.XX.48659 > 69.59.252.200.2400: udp 58
09:39:26.150567 dns1-nyc.vonage.net.domain > 192.168.2XX.XX.44907: 1*- 15/3/2 CNAME tftp.vonage.net.,[|domain] (DF)
09:39:26.150738 192.168.2XX.XX > dns1-nyc.vonage.net: icmp: 192.168.2XX.XX udp port 44907 unreachable
09:39:26.446831 69.59.252.200.2400 > 192.168.2XX.XX.48659: udp 20 (DF)

Steady State "Heartbeat"

09:39:26.591680 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX > 69.59.252.35.10XXX: udp 719 [tos 0x68]
09:39:27.810932 69.59.252.35.10XXX > 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX: udp 389 (DF)
09:39:44.820203 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX > 69.59.252.35.10XXX: udp 719 [tos 0x68]
09:39:46.010237 69.59.252.35.10XXX > 192.168.2XX.XX.10XXX: udp 389 (DF)
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peterbj7
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Joined: Mar 25, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: Belize service providers Reply with quote Back to top

I believe Coral Cable uses BTL lines or equipment. Are they similarly being afflicted with poor/no service?
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Breakwater
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Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: No Dial Tone or QOS or Dropped Calls Reply with quote Back to top

Some thoughts to consider

1. BTL may not be blocking but they may have found a way to lower the quality of service.

2. The problem appears to be intermittent - sometimes you have a dial tone, sometimes not. Sometimes, if your number answers, you can talk for 10 minutes or just a few minutes before the call completely drops.

3. DSL lines in Belize are shared (burstable). A loaded circuit can degrade service.

4. I have not been able to confirm that any other Voip service is having a problem other than Vonage. I have confirmed that Skype is working without a problem.

5. While running the Voip Test - www.testyourvoip.com - can provide a lot of data, is there someone capable of reading the data to determine what is happening?

6. PUC has announced a meeting to "a few" indicating that on April 26, a public meeting will be held by PUC between 9:00 - 12:00 to discuss "Opportunities and Threats for Voip in Belize?" Suggest you confirm this with PUC and get as many people there as possible who have done their homework about Voip, any ITT regulations and history in other countries.

7. The real test might be to find a VSAT user who is using Vonage and who has a higher bandwidth than the standard Direcway or Starband system. Regardless of the latency, if Vonage is working with a VSAT, the problem is not Vonage but more likely, the provided DSL system.

8. Rumors are substantial. *BTL has been slowing down Voip for a month and are moving to do away with it altogether. *BTL is attempting to shut down Voip completely. *BTL is attempting to stop all VSAT's (Direcway, Starband and others). *BTL wants to stop "instant messaging". Before posting, get confirmation.

9. With all the reported or apparent calls to Vonage Customer Service, why have they not be able to determine the problem and report it - regardless of its cause?

One last thought to remember. BTL will fight to the end. The purpose of their business is to make as large a profit as possible - just like any public corporation in the world. And, their long distance services are the largest profit center that they have.

-end-
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shabba
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Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Belize (BTL) Blocking Vonage & Others? Reply with quote Back to top

Have been having the same problem with making calls via Vonage from Belize. BTL has applied to PUC to block Voip & IM and also to make vsat illegal (again). As they have in the past the strategy appears to be to go ahead with their plans and simultaneously ask PUC for permission. Other citizens/residents will remember tarrif rate hikes. There is a PUC public forum at the Fort George 26th April 0900 at the Caracol room to discuss these issues.

On their methodology, I assumed at first that simple filtering of ports in BTL routers was the cause. Experimentation by others would appear to suggest that something a little more intelligent is happening. Possibly stateful inspection and blocking by content or TOS (type of service bit). If this is so then it is unlikely that a work around can be found. Good work by KnckrBckr in getting to a higher level of tech support at Vonage. I kept on ending up with the first level guy with an indian accent wanting me to reboot the ATA Smile
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peterbj7
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

According to Coral Cable themselves their customers are affected in exactly the same way and to the same extent as BTL customers. Seems the only way out is to transfer to satellite, but that (apparently) doesn't support Voip very well at best.

Does anyone know the true legal position - can BTL legally do what they are doing? The next question is whather they can be made to care. The only answer is government regulation effectively carried out, but I don't see that ever happening in Belize in any field.
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KnckrBckr
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Joined: Mar 22, 2006
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: My education Reply with quote Back to top

Over the past few days, I've enjoyed a crash course in Vonage technology, specifically the basics of SIP. Vonage has actually been pretty good. The NJ folks in top level customer support are savvy and willing to help.

I credit OpenBSD and more broadly, my UNIX-based firewall and it's tools or a lot of this new knowledge. If you are interested, check out tcpdump and ngrep and even old favorites like ssh, ping, traceroute and telnet.

I am not quite done with discovery, but it is clear at this point that BTL is using a Voip firewall. Otherwise known as ALG (application layer gateway), this software "function" has many commerical names. Beyond looking at TCP/UDP ports (Layer 4), this software is looking at the Voip payload itself (Layer 5/6/7), specifically at the SIP packets. Most of these Voip security companies serve enterprises with legitimate security mechanisms, but a few of them are marketing "mediation" product to ISPs which is basically a "VoIP-be-gone" pill for your network.

Most large ISPs in the USA and Europe push far too much capacity for any reasonable Layer 4+ filtering. This type of inspection performed on billions of packets per second is costly and introduces performance challenges. Most ISPs don't operate with the protection of a government sponsored monopoly either.

I am 95% certain I know what is going on, but I need one more day to nail down the specifics. At this point, it looks like they might be re-writing the SIP packets, picking out the good stuff of the packet and putting bad stuff back in like BUSY and CANCEL. Forgive my generalizing here and forgive me if I have it totally wrong.

My guess is that BTL has installed a whiz bang Voip firewall which they have on a trial basis. They are checking it out and seeing if they want to pay Joe Shmoe slick-USA software company for a license. My advice to BTL - channel that money into something else. Something else like - better services and better support.

More to follow...
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KnckrBckr
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Joined: Mar 22, 2006
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:38 am    Post subject: Local News Reply with quote Back to top

This is a TV transcript from yesterday's news here in Belize...

http://www.channel5belize.com/archive_detail_story.php?story_id=15960

I suppose this is a start. In my opinion, they left out the real story... the fact they are denying that they are blocking at this moment.
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KnckrBckr
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Joined: Mar 22, 2006
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Update - Troubleshooting Reply with quote Back to top

So here is what they are doing...

Each section starting with a # represents a unique SIP message. The following is a outbound call I initiated to another US number.

The first message is the INVITE message. You will see time/date stamp, IP origin and destination and the next line (depending on your browser formatting is the start of the "message". In this case we see "INVITE". This is my ATA asking the Vonage proxy to complete this SIP handshake with my outside callee.

#
U 2006/03/28 13:34:00.380318 200.xx.xxx.xxx:65xxx -> 69.59.252.35:10xxx
INVITE sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx SIP/2.0.
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx;branch=z9hG4bK-8536788.
From: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>;tag=xxxc7685ae119580o1.
To: <sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>.
Call-ID: 6a0XXaa9-928XXfac@192.168.xxx.xx.
CSeq: 101 INVITE.
Max-Forwards: 70.
Contact: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx>.
Expires: 240.
User-Agent: 000F66FDBXXX Linksys/PAP2-3.1.9(LSc).
Content-Length: 317.
Allow: ACK, BYE, CANCEL, INFO, INVITE, NOTIFY, OPTIONS, REFER.
Supported: x-sipura.
Content-Type: application/sdp.
.
v=0.
o=- 9990082 9990082 IN IP4 192.168.xxx.xx.
s=-.
c=IN IP4 192.168.xxx.xx.
t=0 0.
m=audio 10062 RTP/AVP 0 2 8 18 100 101.
a=rtpmap:0 PCMU/8000.
a=rtpmap:2 G726-32/8000.
a=rtpmap:8 PCMA/8000.
a=rtpmap:18 G729a/8000.
a=rtpmap:100 NSE/8000.
a=rtpmap:101 telephone-event/8000.
a=fmtp:101 0-15.
a=ptime:20.
a=sendrecv.

About 2 seconds later, I receive this next message and this is the reason for the Fast "Busy". You can see the "486 Busy". Two interesting things to note here. First, Vonage didn't send me this message and secondly I received this message about 9ms (9 thousanths of a second) before the following "good" one arrives.

#
U 2006/03/28 13:34:02.101038 69.59.252.35:10xxx -> 200.xx.xxx.xxx:65xxx
SIP/2.0 486 Busy.
Call-ID: 6a0XXaa9-928XXfac@192.168.xxx.xx.
From: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>;tag=xxxc7685ae119580o1.
To: <sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>.
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx;branch=z9hxxbK-85xx788.
User-Agent: 000F66FDBXXX Linksys/PAP2-3.1.9(LSc).
CSeq: 101 INVITE.
Content-Length: 0.
Max-Forwards: 70.
.
And 9ms later I get the message I was supposed to get (407 proxy auth required). This means they are buffering and/or duplicating the Vonage packets as they get back to me and replacing the good SIP message with "Busy" before this packet can get to me. Thusly, not blocking just confusing or as the clever software companies put it -- "mediating".

#
U 2006/03/28 13:34:02.120358 69.59.252.35:10xxx -> 200.xx.xxx.xxx:65xxx
SIP/2.0 407 Proxy Authentication Required.
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx;branch=z9hxxbK-85xx788.
From: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>;tag=xxxc7685ae119580o1;natted=200.xx.xxx.xxx.
To: <sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>.
Call-ID: 6a0f6aa9-928c8fac@192.168.xxx.xx.
CSeq: 101 INVITE.
Proxy-Authenticate: Digest realm="69.59.252.35", domain="sip:69.59.252.35", nonce="747xx7601", algorithm=MD5.
Max-Forwards: 15.
Content-Length: 0.
.
At this point, my ATA already thinks the call is over and never sends an authentication packet. Even if it did try, the next message kills everything all together with "Request Cancelled". Notice, this came 5ms later (5 thousandths of a second). I say this because the latency between me and the proxy is over 130ms. You can see from the first message how long it took for Vonage (and the Voip pirate) and get back to me after I send the initial INVITE.

#
U 2006/03/28 13:34:02.125737 69.59.252.35:10xxx -> 200.xx.xxx.xxx:65xxx
SIP/2.0 487 Request Cancelled.
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx;branch=z9hxxbK-853xx88.
From: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>;tag=xxxc7685ae119580o1.
To: <sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>.
Call-ID: 6aXX6aa9-928XXfac@192.168.xxx.xx.
CSeq: 1 INVITE.
Max-Forwards: 15.
Content-Length: 0.
.

My ACK (acknowledge) message goes out 2ms later and sends a few more over the next 5 ms. Not sure what is happening here, but the damage has been done and I assume this is just my ATA saying "ok, I understand the call is over."

#
U 2006/03/28 13:34:02.127821 200.xx.xxx.xxx:65xxx -> 69.59.252.35:10xxx
ACK sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx SIP/2.0.
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx;branch=z9hG4bK-8536788.
From: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>;tag=xxxc7685ae119580o1.
To: <sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>.
Call-ID: 6a0f6aa9-928c8fac@192.168.xxx.xx.
CSeq: 101 ACK.
Max-Forwards: 70.
Contact: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx>.
User-Agent: 000F66FDBXXX Linksys/PAP2-3.1.9(LSc).
Content-Length: 0.
.

#
U 2006/03/28 13:34:02.140660 200.xx.xxx.xxx:65xxx -> 69.59.252.35:10xxx
ACK sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx SIP/2.0.
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx;branch=z9hxxbK-85xx788.
From: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>;tag=xxxc7685ae119580o1.
To: <sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>.
Call-ID: 6a0XXaa9-928XXfac@192.168.xxx.xx.
CSeq: 101 ACK.
Max-Forwards: 70.
Contact: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx>.
User-Agent: 000F66FDBXXX Linksys/PAP2-3.1.9(LSc).
Content-Length: 0.
.

#
U 2006/03/28 13:34:02.151607 200.xx.xxx.xxx:65xxx -> 69.59.252.35:10xxx
ACK sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx SIP/2.0.
Via: SIP/2.0/UDP 192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx;branch=z9hxxbK-85xx788.
From: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>;tag=xxxc7685ae119580o1.
To: <sip:136xxxxxxxx@d.voncp.com:10xxx>.
Call-ID: 6a0f6aa9-928c8fac@192.168.xxx.xx.
CSeq: 101 ACK.
Max-Forwards: 70.
Contact: 212-xxx-xxxx <sip:1212xxxxxxx@192.168.xxx.xx:10xxx>.
User-Agent: 000F66FDBXXX Linksys/PAP2-3.1.9(LSc).
Content-Length: 0.
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†AK and HI residents pay $29.95 shipping. ††Limited time offer. Valid for residents of the United States (&DC), 18 years or older, who open new accounts. Offer good while supplies last and only on new account activations. One kit per account/household. Offer cannot be combined with any other discounts, promotions or plans and is not applicable to past purchases. Good while supplies last. Allow up to 2 weeks for shipping. Other restrictions may apply.

1Unlimited calling and other services for all residential plans are based on normal residential, personal, non-commercial use. A combination of factors is used to determine abnormal use, including but not limited to: the number of unique numbers called, calls forwarded, minutes used and other factors. Subject to our Reasonable Use Policy and Terms of Service.

2Shipping and activation fees waived with 1-year agreement. An Early Termination Fee (with periodic pro-rated reductions) applies if service is terminated before the end of the first 12 months. Additional restrictions may apply. See Terms of Service for details.

HIGH SPEED INTERNET REQUIRED. †VALID FOR NEW LINES ONLY. RATES EXCLUDE INTERNET SERVICE, SURCHARGES, FEES AND TAXES. DEVICE MAY BE REFURBISHED. If you subscribe to plans with monthly minutes allotments, all call minutes placed from both from your home and registered ExtensionsTM phones will count toward your monthly minutes allotment. ExtensionsTM calls made from mobiles use airtime and may incur surcharges, depending on your mobile plan. Alarms, TTY and other systems may not be compatible. Vonage 911 service operates differently than traditional 911. See www.vonage.com/911 for details.

** Certain call types excluded.

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