Help with Vonage / Shaw Issues

Posts: 5 · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I just registered as a forum member hoping to find some answers. I guess I found them, but they're not what I'm wanting to hear.

I've had my Vonage line here in Red Deer since the beginning of Nov and it's been pretty good until a couple weeks ago. Since then, almost all my out-going calls are so poor in quality that the phone's virtually unusable.

I've spent a couple hours on 2 tech support calls to Vonage with no solution. Between calling tech support and just trying to make local calls, I'm now at least 60 min over my monthly cell phone plan. I'm not a happy camper.

Vonage needs to find a technical solution to this problem fast, or, if they think Shaw is sabotaging their traffic, Vonage better find some evidence they can get to the CRTC!

I'm looking pretty hard for alternatives.

Posts: 1 · Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject:

Same problems here, and I'm not impressed.

I'm using Shaw I-Extreme, and have a personal line plus a business / fax package on a separate PAP2 adapter.

The phone (either line) has been virtually unusable this past week. My internet connection has been fine, but I've got either terrible echo, choppiness, or (since this weekend) no outbound audio whatsoever.

I'm using a WRT54GS with DD-WRT firmware and plenty of overhead for my Voip lines on the QoS filter.

I might phone Shaw tomorrow to vent, but I doubt it will get me anywhere. I spend about $100 a month for the various packages & addons, so if they want to loose a $1200/yr customer over a QoS fee, so be it.

Posts: 105 · Vonage Forum Senior Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Posts: 105

Hmmmm...

Where are you guys all located? Are you guys using a Motorola or a Terayon modem? I'm on standard Shaw DOCSIS (Motorola SB5101) in Kelowna and have not had any problems this week. Had a couple problems last week but not related to what you guys are talking about.

It is making me a bit nervous though. Here is my test score for outgoing to Boston. Incoming was a lot better.

MOS 3.3 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)

Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 34.3%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 1.10 65.7%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 187 ms
Packet Discards 2.9%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 40 ms
Random Loss

Jitter Min: 0 ms
Avg: 10 ms
Max: 52 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 109 ms
Call Setup Time 125 ms
Media Delay 422 ms

Posts: 4 · New Forum Member Joined: Mar 28, 2006 Posts: 4

It sounds like there are similar problems with Rogers sister corp - Shaw.

I'm considering dumping cable internet and going back to DSL.

I've been using Vonage since Dec 04, with Rogers Extreme hiSpeed (a 50 a month service) and had no quality complaints until december 2005.

Since then it has been decidedly more patchy. Dropped calls, loss of outgoing voice for 5 second bursts, etc etc.

I called Vonage and they said, yes you have a problem, and it is bandwidth - i.e. call your ISP.

I called rogers, and said: look, i'm paying for your best connection and not getting the reliability i need, what are you going to do about it? Nothing we can do, they said, but we'll give you a discount.

My guess is that the cable companies are selling broadband faster than they are building it and filesharing fiends down the street are hogging bandwith on that scarce upload.

Has anyone experienced really good Voip quality with any service?

Posts: 105 · Vonage Forum Senior Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Posts: 105

I get great phone quality on my standard Shaw connection. Nobody can tell I am on Voip unless I have a P2P client running, then sometimes they make a comment about echo or scratchy audio.

Posts: 22 · Vonage Forum Associate Joined: Jul 12, 2005 Posts: 22

Has anyone tried the $10 extra a month QoS service offered by Shaw?

I'm wondering if prioritizing the SIP traffic solves the outbound issues (identifying that the issue is within Shaw's network).

The other test I'm trying to do is compare upstream http (or any other protocol besides SIP) traffic with upstream sip traffic to determine if shaw is purposely degrading the SIP related traffic.

This exercise can come to two conclusions;

a) all upstream traffic is affected the same regardless of protocol, which would indicate that shaw has a capacity problem with the upstream traffic, or

b) SIP upstream traffic is worse than other protocols, which indicates that Shaw is actively shaping the SIP protocol down. This would be an issue for the CRTC.

To do this test, Vonage should provide a separate java type test that tests the protocols similar to www.testyourvoip.com and also for a different protocol (preferrably http).

Any thoughts on how we can get this going?

JT

Posts: 1 · New Forum Member Joined: Mar 28, 2006 Posts: 1

Add me to the list of Shaw users with issues. Here is what I have found. Most issues are with Vonage+D-Link+Shaw configurations. Shaw assured me that because I am an I-Extreme user that there is no benefit of buying the $10 QOS as it is included in the extreme bundle. Vonage fails to deal with my problem and I have asked Shaw to contact me when their Voip option comes to my area.

I don't believe that Vonage or Shaw is doing anything wrong, they just don't know what the problem is. Shaw wouldn't dare cause purposeful issues as their asses would get sued. Vonages customer service has been terrible. Below are my scores:

I actually started a small Canadian website (vonage-reviews.ca) as a result to see how it plays out.

MOS
3.3 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)

Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 33.3%
Latency 0.08 4.4%
Packet Discards 1.08 62.2%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%
Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 213 ms
Packet Discards 3.7%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods
Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 80 ms
Burst Loss
Jitter
Min: 0 ms
Avg: 9 ms
Max: 116 ms
Signaling Quality
Post-Dial Delay 125 ms
Call Setup Time 125 ms
Media Delay 266 ms

Posts: 105 · Vonage Forum Senior Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Posts: 105

Your max jitter looks kinda high. You running SIP QoS on your router? If not, do you have anything running that could cause intermittent bursts like Outlook.

Posts: 1 · New Forum Member Joined: Mar 29, 2006 Posts: 1

So because I use Rogers which owns Shaw that means here in atlantic CA we are going to get hit as well. Rogers/Shaw mess with my data streams all the time. I sure wish there was an alternative.
Does anyone keep an eue on these companies?

bobertc wrote:

I smell a $10 rat....

Shaw wants us to pay $10 a month to turn on a "QoS" (Quality of service flag on their head-end routers.) $10???? This would be a feature like call waiting on your phone, in todays prices, would you pay $10!!!???? I think not!

I've got the "Shaw Extreme" and, until very recently, have been VERY happy with it. All of a sudden Shaw comes out and says "Oh, we offer a $10 a month service to improve your Voip calls. OR you can use OUR Voip services and We'll turn that flag on for you for free!!!!

Funny how my Vonage box has been ROCK SOLID until this new "feature" has been offered. I get 125KB/sec uploads to everything else.. I've got QoS enabled on my Smoothwall firewall to allocate 10KB/sec upstream to my Vonage and yet... I'm still getting dropped packets during calls, especially local calls to Vancouver, Burnaby and New Westminster. With ZERO other activity on my network.

Shaw and their new Ellacoya switches (do a search on Bittorrent and packet shaping) have the ability to mess with any datastream they so choose. If my "conspiracy theory turns out to be true" sign me up on the class action lawsuit...

Posts: 5 · Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject:

How's it working for you guys now?

For the past couple of weeks, almost all my out-going calls were so poor in quality that the phone was useless.

On the evening of the 27th, I made some config changes on my D-Link router. My wife made a call later in the evening and said the phone worked fine. Except during a Shaw Internet outage for a few hours yesterday, the phone seems to be working fine. I notice a little delay on a few calls, but most calls seem OK.

Is it something I did? Or did Vonage tweak their network about the same time to improve everybody's Voip performance?

MR