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mrpubcrawl
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: E911 routed to non-emergency number Reply with quote Back to top

Hi,

I live in Delray Beach, FL. My wife just tested our 911 service and turns out it is answered by the non-emergency local police department, also did not have or address information. 933 confirms E911 service. Glad she tested, not happy that it didn't work.

Any ideas?
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: E911 routed to non-emergency number Reply with quote Back to top

mrpubcrawl wrote:
Hi,

I live in Delray Beach, FL. My wife just tested our 911 service and turns out it is answered by the non-emergency local police department, also did not have or address information. 933 confirms E911 service. Glad she tested, not happy that it didn't work.

Any ideas?


I think there is a dedicated menu option for 911/E911 issues at Vonage customer service. I'd call them and see if they can help. At the very least, that call should be routed to the National Center that Vonage maintains or contracts. And they should most certainly NOT be telling you that is "E911" service.

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nickle
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sit and wait. E911 is trying there best to get all issues resolved and all PSAPs routed correctly.
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

nickle -

No offense intended, but "Sit and wait" is the last thing you want to do when you discover that 911 is not working.

Now, don't get me wrong, I know that Vonage is working their collective tushes off to try and get everyone up to E911 code, and I'd be the last one to argue that what they are doing is supposedly simple, or cheap, or can reasonably be expected to happen immediately.

However, Vonage offers three, and only three, 911 services:

- E911, where the call goes to your local PSAP with address.
- Basic 911, where the call goes to your local PSAP without address.
- Vonage Call Center, where the call goes to the Vonage call center (usually without address) and they look up your local PSAP and forward the call.

"your call is forwarded to a non-energency number where someone may bother to answer assuming the office is open, or someone may not, if they are too busy on their union breaks" is not a Vonage 911 feature. Their web site does not list this as an option. It is especially not an option when 933 (admittedly prone to error) tells them they have full blown E911. Therefore, there is a problem that needs to be rectified, even if it means moving the user to "Vonage Call Center" status while the routing tables get fixed.

I applaud the original poster for taking the initiative to test 911. I think everyone should (after making the appropriate arrangements with their local PSAP, which they can probably contact by calling their local police station). Now they need to follow up and take the next step toward fixing the problem.

Resolving this should be a two-step process.

#1. The "personal responsibility" bit. Using your local phone book, or calling your police station, get the EMERGENCY non-911 telephone numbers for your local PSAP. Put them numbers on speed dial, and/or write them down next to every phone. NO ONE is truly responsible for your safety but YOU.

#2. The "Vonage responsbility" bit. Contact Vonage and let them know, loud and clear, that 911 is not working for your area. They need to fix it. Test it occasionally until it works. Then keep the numbers on your phone anyway. Because things break.

_________________
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nickle
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:
nickle -

No offense intended, but "Sit and wait" is the last thing you want to do when you discover that 911 is not working.

Now, don't get me wrong, I know that Vonage is working their collective tushes off to try and get everyone up to E911 code, and I'd be the last one to argue that what they are doing is supposedly simple, or cheap, or can reasonably be expected to happen immediately.

However, Vonage offers three, and only three, 911 services:

- E911, where the call goes to your local PSAP with address.
- Basic 911, where the call goes to your local PSAP without address.
- Vonage Call Center, where the call goes to the Vonage call center (usually without address) and they look up your local PSAP and forward the call.

"your call is forwarded to a non-energency number where someone may bother to answer assuming the office is open, or someone may not, if they are too busy on their union breaks" is not a Vonage 911 feature. Their web site does not list this as an option. It is especially not an option when 933 (admittedly prone to error) tells them they have full blown E911. Therefore, there is a problem that needs to be rectified, even if it means moving the user to "Vonage Call Center" status while the routing tables get fixed.

I applaud the original poster for taking the initiative to test 911. I think everyone should (after making the appropriate arrangements with their local PSAP, which they can probably contact by calling their local police station). Now they need to follow up and take the next step toward fixing the problem.

Resolving this should be a two-step process.

#1. The "personal responsibility" bit. Using your local phone book, or calling your police station, get the EMERGENCY non-911 telephone numbers for your local PSAP. Put them numbers on speed dial, and/or write them down next to every phone. NO ONE is truly responsible for your safety but YOU.

#2. The "Vonage responsbility" bit. Contact Vonage and let them know, loud and clear, that 911 is not working for your area. They need to fix it. Test it occasionally until it works. Then keep the numbers on your phone anyway. Because things break.


No offense...but when the only thing you CAN do is sit and wait..then that is all you can do.
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your "sit tight and wait". I understand that there is not much the customer, or even Vonage, can do if the PSAP does not want to support 911. I remember the trials of getting landline 911, and cell phone 911, and I know that Voip presents many of the same challenges.

I realize that PSAP's have limited budgets and limits to their functionality, and I'm not asking Vonage to wave a magic wand and give me E911 - I know that's not realistic, and I know that my calls will to to the National Emergency Center - and I also have the backup number to my PSAP glued to all of my Vonage telephones.

However, as I stated in my post above, Vonage only describes three 911 scenarios; E911, 911, and Vonage Call Center.

http://www.vonage.com/features.php?feature=911

If the PSAP is unwilling to play ball, then Vonage should be forwarding the call to the "Vonage Emergency Center" as described on the Vonage home page. 911 calls, based on the information on Vonage's own web site, should never, EVER be routed to a non-emergency number.

In particular, if a customer is being TOLD (by "933") that they have E911 and instead is getting a LOWER level of service than even the Vonage Emergency Center, I think the customer has a responsbility to call Vonage so the routing tables can at least get the calls going to the Vonage Emergency Center.

After all, what if this guy's next door Vonage-using neighbor has been depending on "933" to give him real information, and in a real emergency at 3AM gets the message "Hi. You've reached the (name your city here) police department. Our office hours are from 9AM to 4PM, Monday through Friday. Please leave a message."

"sit tight" will come soon enough in that scenario, as rigor mortis sets in.

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nickle
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:
Maybe I'm misinterpreting your "sit tight and wait". I understand that there is not much the customer, or even Vonage, can do if the PSAP does not want to support 911. I remember the trials of getting landline 911, and cell phone 911, and I know that Voip presents many of the same challenges.

I realize that PSAP's have limited budgets and limits to their functionality, and I'm not asking Vonage to wave a magic wand and give me E911 - I know that's not realistic, and I know that my calls will to to the National Emergency Center - and I also have the backup number to my PSAP glued to all of my Vonage telephones.

However, as I stated in my post above, Vonage only describes three 911 scenarios; E911, 911, and Vonage Call Center.

http://www.vonage.com/features.php?feature=911

If the PSAP is unwilling to play ball, then Vonage should be forwarding the call to the "Vonage Emergency Center" as described on the Vonage home page. 911 calls, based on the information on Vonage's own web site, should never, EVER be routed to a non-emergency number.

In particular, if a customer is being TOLD (by "933") that they have E911 and instead is getting a LOWER level of service than even the Vonage Emergency Center, I think the customer has a responsbility to call Vonage so the routing tables can at least get the calls going to the Vonage Emergency Center.

After all, what if this guy's next door Vonage-using neighbor has been depending on "933" to give him real information, and in a real emergency at 3AM gets the message "Hi. You've reached the (name your city here) police department. Our office hours are from 9AM to 4PM, Monday through Friday. Please leave a message."

"sit tight" will come soon enough in that scenario, as rigor mortis sets in.


what i am trying to say is that it takes time for Vonage to make all the calls and get everything set up with the psaps. it takes time. Noone is saying that your particular PSAP is not willing to support Vonage. They more than likely do. Its just that there is only 24 hours in a day and everything takes time. So as a Vonage customer all you can do is wait until they are done with the upgrading.
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Understood.

Then, until they do get it activated, do you agree that Vonage's "933" service should not be telling a customer they have E911 unless they actually have it?

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nickle
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:
Understood.

Then, until they do get it activated, do you agree that Vonage's "933" service should not be telling a customer they have E911 unless they actually have it?


I 100% agree with you. I am not a Vonage customer so I was not aware of that.
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

nickle wrote:
NateHoy wrote:
Understood.

Then, until they do get it activated, do you agree that Vonage's "933" service should not be telling a customer they have E911 unless they actually have it?


I 100% agree with you. I am not a Vonage customer so I was not aware of that.


But that was the whole point of the discussion. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on it, I thought I was, but discussions via text are fraught with misunderstanding. Wink

The original poster's problem is not that they don't have E911 per se. It was that Vonage's "933" service (a Vonage feature that tells us what to expect when we call 911) CLAIMED he had E911, when in fact his 911 calls are forwarded to a NON-emergency number.

Vonage claims that one of three things will happen when you call 911. You'll get E911, basic 911, or contact with the Vonage National Call Center. In this customer's case, he was told that he would get E911. When he tested this, he got connected to a non-emergency number (one that may or may not be monitored 24 hours a day).

I know there's nothing he, or Vonage, or the PSAP, can do to snap their fingers and magically make E911 happen. I know Vonage and the PSAPs are working their collective arses off to make it happen, so as to the actual availablilty of E911, I agree, wait until it happens.

But, my entire point has been to report Vonage's problem (inaccurate reporting on "933" AND the fact that he is not reaching ANY sort of emergency number on "911") to Vonage so they can get THAT resolved in the meantime.

Vonage's response should be:

1. Fix "933" so it tells the customer what will REALLY happen. No false expectations where safety is concerned.

2. Take the customer's local area and forward their 911 calls to the Vonage National Emergency Center, so they can reach SOMEONE in the event of an off-hours emergency. Forwarding ANY 911 call to a non-emergency number is a really, really bad idea.

3. Continue working on E911 for that particular area, which they are no doubt already doing, so THIS portion I agree that the customer can do little more than wait.

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