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ekaim
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Fairfield County, CT

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for your concern, but you failed to increase my confusion. Your description of how "router" and "adapter" are used in this forum confirmed my impression. It's nice to know I'm speaking an appropriate language.

I agree that taylor2767's suggestion seems right, and I've followed it. So far all seems well, despite one poor connection -- but that was with a tech support rep (not Vonage) in India, and who knows what kind of line she was on? I need more than 24 hours of testing, so I'll be back with results after another couple of days.

Thanks again.

_________________
- Location: Fairfield County, CT.
- ISP: Optimum Online (Cablevision).
- Upload : 1.55 Mbps; Download: 12.3 Mbps
- Motorola cable modem: Surfboard SBV5120
- Wireless router: Linksys WRT54GS
- Vonage adapters: (1) LinkSys RTP300; (2) Motorola VT2442
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ekaim
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Fairfield County, CT

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: The going got too tough, and I'm going... Reply with quote Back to top

taylor2767 wrote:
I still think this config would work the best.

modem>>>>WRT54G>>>>>RT300 (port 1 of 54G)>>>>VT1005(port 2 of 54G)>>>>PC#1(port3 of 54G)>>>PC#2(port4 of 54G).

The ports of the phone adatpers can be used if you need additional lan ports but with this config they are being used strictly has your phone adapters and not routers.


I'm reporting back on the results of following the suggestion of taylor2767 quoted above, which seemed so promising.

I wish I could say it was a blazing success, but -- the quality of calls is erratic (some choppy voice, frequent echo of my own) and my voice transmission is again dropping out, at least momentarily, during calls; so far the calls have continued and the other party picks me up again -- but this is not really useful phone service.

Also, since trying the suggested configuration, my wireless laptop -- which used to hold a signal from my WRT54G OK most of the time -- was refusing to connect, no matter what steps I took, then suddenly clarified the problem by reporting that it was now picking up a LinkSys wireless network -- which must have have confused the poor thing. The wireless network I'd been using previously was one I installed and managed myself, using a network key, disabling Windows control, and configuring the network to accept the IP address automatically. Great advantage of this set-up, of course, is that it works (or worked) wherever I am in range of any wireless signal, not only the one from my home-office WRT54G.

Now I can use the LinkSys network while at my home location, but will have to reactivate my original network for use anywhere else.

I'm done testing, unless anyone has any further suggestions. I've also been skimming some other message threads in this forum that suggest many users have the same kinds of problems; some lucky few don't, for unclear reasons; there's no single solution or configuration that can solve everyone's problems (naturally); and I believe there's universal and vociferous agreement that Vonage would do its users a favor by admitting they simply don't have tech support -- and renaming their "customer care" to something like "You're stuck, sucker! Enter here only if you want to throw good money after bad, have a great deal of time to waste, or just enjoy abuse."

In other words, I'm on my way back to POTS (unless I weaken and try some other Voip vendor, like OptimumVoice, first). Voip should work, and probably someday it will -- but it's not here yet. When its day comes, Vonage may or may not be here to see it.

For people who have a great deal more knowledge of and interest in the technical niceties than I (and the time and patience to indulge), Vonage or some other Voip route may afford a wonderful hobby. But right now it's no way to run a railroad -- or a phone service.

Thanks to all who tried to help.

Bye.

_________________
- Location: Fairfield County, CT.
- ISP: Optimum Online (Cablevision).
- Upload : 1.55 Mbps; Download: 12.3 Mbps
- Motorola cable modem: Surfboard SBV5120
- Wireless router: Linksys WRT54GS
- Vonage adapters: (1) LinkSys RTP300; (2) Motorola VT2442
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outerfire
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry to hear it hasn't worked out. I was hoping that you'd be free and clear. Personally, I'm extremely glad that I haven't had the troubles that plague this emerging technology, past a few initial glitches. My few experiences with tech support have been iffy at best. Plus it's even harder when there are really two separate companies at play.

The biggest drawback I see with Voip is that it is so dependant on outside help (meaning a good, stable connection.) I've travelled with my adapter and been places where I haven't been able to use the Vonage due to unstable ISPs. At the in-laws, I usually get about 5-10 minute calling time blocks, and they tell me their connection is better than mine. Thankfully, at home my Internet connection has held up it's end, and allowed me to stick with Vonage.

I guess the only other suggestion I'd have would be whether you could do without your computers needing Internet for a few days. If you test run with Vonage only, and there are no changes, then you'd be left with a good indication that there may be ISP issues. Unfortunately, Vonage very little control (some slight tweaking abilities) over connection trouble-shooting.

I'd be curious to see several "testyourvoip" scores at random times. I do suspect that you might have a good, yet at times unstable connection. Others may have some other points that may be brought up. I'm quite sure you've played with different bandwidth settings. I'll give it some thought and see if I can think of anything else.

However, at this point, I can understand your frustration. It's no fun when things don't go as they are supposed to. If your trial period hasn't expired, it may be best to ship it back while you can and try again if anything seems to change on your end.
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joserhome
New Forum Member
New Forum Member


Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:09 pm    Post subject: Drop-outs during calls Reply with quote Back to top

I'm experiencing the same problems as ekaim. I've been on Vonage for over 2 months now. It was pretty good at first, but I am starting to notice dropped calls and choppy quality. I am currently on OptimumOnline and average about 7-9mb down and 920kb up.
I used to use the WRTP54G as my router for home network and ATA. After reading at another thread that its best to relegate the ATA for voice only I've configured my network as follows:

modem- WRT54G--- WRTP54g

I've plugged the WRTP54G ATA to port 4 on my WRT54G router and setup high priority on that port via the QOS option. I've disabled wireless, firewall etc on the ATA so its basically acting as a phone adapter.

While I have noticed better quality than before, I still hear interruptions at times and have experienced drops. I'm starting to wonder if the problem is Optimum interfering with the Voip traffic on their network or simply their changes on the network to offer the higher speed service causing interruptions.

Here is my Voip test results:

MOS Analysis From You TO Boston

Media Quality MOS 4.2 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)



Degradation Sources
Codec 0.57 68.1%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.27 31.9%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 108 ms
Packet Discards 1.8%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 20 ms
Max: 20 ms
Random Loss

Jitter Min: 0 ms
Avg: 6 ms
Max: 210 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 47 ms
Call Setup Time 47 ms
Media Delay 125 ms


MOS Analysis FROM Boston To You

Media Quality MOS 4.4 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)



Degradation Sources
Codec 0.58 93.0%
Latency 0.00 0.0%
Packet Discards 0.04 7.0%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 108 ms
Packet Discards 0.3%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 40 ms
Avg: 40 ms
Max: 40 ms
Random Loss

Jitter Min: 4 ms
Avg: 6 ms
Max: 105 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Pickup Delay 48 ms
Call Setup Time 62 ms
Media Delay 82 ms

-----
I just changed my QoS on my WRT54G router to provide the highest priority to the MAC address of the WRTP54G which I got from Vonage and currently using only as an ATA attached to port 4 of my WRT54G.

Hoping this will improve my voice quality. Wondering if the problem is with the WRTP54G. Anyone have some feedback on the PAP2's?
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ekaim
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Fairfield County, CT

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

outerfire wrote:
Sorry to hear it hasn't worked out. I was hoping that you'd be free and clear. Personally, I'm extremely glad that I haven't had the troubles that plague this emerging technology, past a few initial glitches. My few experiences with tech support have been iffy at best. Plus it's even harder when there are really two separate companies at play.

The biggest drawback I see with Voip is that it is so dependant on outside help (meaning a good, stable connection.) I've travelled with my adapter and been places where I haven't been able to use the Vonage due to unstable ISPs. At the in-laws, I usually get about 5-10 minute calling time blocks, and they tell me their connection is better than mine. Thankfully, at home my Internet connection has held up it's end, and allowed me to stick with Vonage.

I guess the only other suggestion I'd have would be whether you could do without your computers needing Internet for a few days. If you test run with Vonage only, and there are no changes, then you'd be left with a good indication that there may be ISP issues. Unfortunately, Vonage very little control (some slight tweaking abilities) over connection trouble-shooting.

I'd be curious to see several "testyourvoip" scores at random times. I do suspect that you might have a good, yet at times unstable connection. Others may have some other points that may be brought up. I'm quite sure you've played with different bandwidth settings. I'll give it some thought and see if I can think of anything else.

However, at this point, I can understand your frustration. It's no fun when things don't go as they are supposed to. If your trial period hasn't expired, it may be best to ship it back while you can and try again if anything seems to change on your end.


Thanks for your commiseration. I agree that one of the more important variables has to be the strength of the signal from my ISP, together with adequacy and consistency of up- and download speeds. At this moment my tests show:

Download 3.81 Mbps
Upload 1.49Mbps
QOS 54%
RTT 26 ms
MaxPause 130 ms

However, tests run at different times do show substantial variation. DL time is usually higher than the above -- typically over 7 Mbps; upload (which I guess is more important in this context) also varies, not as much, but always seems to be comfortably over 1 Mbps, which should be adequate (acc to Verizon).

As I said in an earlier post somewhere, I've gotten the impression that the strength and stability of my internet signal are often adequate for my computer connection while less so for TV reception (evidenced by intermittent glitches in picture quality) and even less so for Voip connectivity, which is apparently the most sensitive to signal fluctuations etc. For example, when I experience a drop-out during a Vonage call, I can see the adapter's light blinking, indicating it's looking for a signal -- while my computer internet connection shows no signs of difficulty.

I have to admit that this observation makes it tempting to try the Voip service offered by own cable provider, Cablevision (operating as Optimum Online and offering Optimum Voice as its Voip solution). I've heard that this service operates somewhat differently from the form of Voip used by Vonage; I don't understand the technical details, of course, but the gist of it seems to be that Optimum Voice would isolate the phone connection from the other internet connections -- along the lines of your suggestion to try doing without computers running off the same router as my phones (a suggestion that's just impractical for me, I'm afraid). The other attraction of Optimum Voice, for me, is that subscribing to this service would make Cablevision/Optimum Online responsible at least for the quality of the internet signal; i.e., if that's a primary or major determinant of the quality of the phone service (as seems logical), I should be able to get the ISP to come out and "fix" at least that part of the problem (assuming I still have problems in that scenario) -- which is not feasible with Vonage or any Voip service other than the one offered by my own ISP.

I'm just debating now whether to give Optimum Voice a try before beating a retreat to POTS.

Thanks again for your suggestions and sympathy.

Ed

_________________
- Location: Fairfield County, CT.
- ISP: Optimum Online (Cablevision).
- Upload : 1.55 Mbps; Download: 12.3 Mbps
- Motorola cable modem: Surfboard SBV5120
- Wireless router: Linksys WRT54GS
- Vonage adapters: (1) LinkSys RTP300; (2) Motorola VT2442
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VonageTPA
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 1715
Location: Florida (usually)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If you're seeing any sort of static at all on you TV sets and are using a cable internet connection, call up the cable co & get them to fix the cable signal. Cable internet is far more sensitive to interference and noise than your video signal is. You're paying (probably too much) for cable TV & cable internet, by all means make them come out and give you the signal and quality you're paying for.

_________________
ISP: Varies depending where I'm at.
Vonage: Linksys RTP300
Router: IPCop 1.4.10
Phones: various
Total calls since Jul 24, 2005: 4,794 calls
Total Minutes since Jul 24, 2005: 25,552 minutes
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ekaim
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Fairfield County, CT

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

VonageTPA wrote:
If you're seeing any sort of static at all on you TV sets and are using a cable internet connection, call up the cable co & get them to fix the cable signal. Cable internet is far more sensitive to interference and noise than your video signal is. You're paying (probably too much) for cable TV & cable internet, by all means make them come out and give you the signal and quality you're paying for.


Been there, done that, at least twice. Since my cable provider is not responsible for my Voip service, as a favor I've asked each service technician for any suggestions about the problems with my Voip service when they've come to "repair" the cable TV service. One technician had no clue; another said he'd found that the signal getting to my house was OK, but the signal actually getting to my cable TV boxes wasn't adequate, so he upgraded that connection; he did fix that, and offered his opinion that this might help with my Voip problems as well (it didn't).

But, in short, his responsibility ended with getting my TV reception back up to par. I could also get Cablevision/Optimum Online to upgrade the signal underlying my computer connection to the internet (which hasn't been a problem for years). But asking them about my Voip problems is simply "not their department."

That's why I'm tempted, despite reservations, to try Optimum Voice -- so they'd have to take responsibility for the quality of the signal underlying my Voip connection.

_________________
- Location: Fairfield County, CT.
- ISP: Optimum Online (Cablevision).
- Upload : 1.55 Mbps; Download: 12.3 Mbps
- Motorola cable modem: Surfboard SBV5120
- Wireless router: Linksys WRT54GS
- Vonage adapters: (1) LinkSys RTP300; (2) Motorola VT2442
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ekaim
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Fairfield County, CT

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Drop-outs during calls Reply with quote Back to top

joserhome wrote:
I'm experiencing the same problems as ekaim. I've been on Vonage for over 2 months now. It was pretty good at first, but I am starting to notice dropped calls and choppy quality. I am currently on OptimumOnline and average about 7-9mb down and 920kb up.
I used to use the WRTP54G as my router for home network and ATA. After reading at another thread that its best to relegate the ATA for voice only I've configured my network as follows:

modem- WRT54G--- WRTP54g

I've plugged the WRTP54G ATA to port 4 on my WRT54G router and setup high priority on that port via the QOS option. I've disabled wireless, firewall etc on the ATA so its basically acting as a phone adapter.

While I have noticed better quality than before, I still hear interruptions at times and have experienced drops. I'm starting to wonder if the problem is Optimum interfering with the Voip traffic on their network or simply their changes on the network to offer the higher speed service causing interruptions.

Here is my Voip test results:

...
-----
I just changed my QoS on my WRT54G router to provide the highest priority to the MAC address of the WRTP54G which I got from Vonage and currently using only as an ATA attached to port 4 of my WRT54G.

Hoping this will improve my voice quality. Wondering if the problem is with the WRTP54G. Anyone have some feedback on the PAP2's?


Just noticed your post. Interesting that you're experiencing problems like mine, and you're also using Optimum Online, and you're suspecting Opt Online might be doing something that interferes with your Voip service. Of course our cable providers and what they do (e.g. the speed "Boost" option now offered by Opt Online) represent yet another important variable in the mix. Problems: (1) Unless I've just missed it, I don't know of any sources of info on the differences among cable providers w/r to effects on Voip service; and (2) In most cases, such info wouldn't make any practical difference to users, the great majority of whom have extremely limited options w/r to cable providers (e.g., one and only one option in my case).

As I said in an earlier post in this thread, I'm tempted to try Optimum Voice, since this would theoretically make Cablevision/Optimum Online responsible for the quality of the service getting to my phone system. (This leaves my phone hardware alone in my hands, since Optimum is quick to point out that it has no responsibility for that.)

Do you know of anyone who's tried Optimum Voice or any independent source of info about it? -- Either quality of the service itself, or tech support, etc.?

_________________
- Location: Fairfield County, CT.
- ISP: Optimum Online (Cablevision).
- Upload : 1.55 Mbps; Download: 12.3 Mbps
- Motorola cable modem: Surfboard SBV5120
- Wireless router: Linksys WRT54GS
- Vonage adapters: (1) LinkSys RTP300; (2) Motorola VT2442
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NateHoy
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, you have to get QoS tuned before it will work on a WRT54G series router (and you can't do this tuning on a WRTP54G or RTP300, or any other Vonage router):

If you don't get the upstream number right on the WRT54G series routers, QoS can't shape the traffic well, and you end up with partly ineffective or even completely useless QoS.

http://vonage.nmhoy.net/qos.html

http://vonage.nmhoy.net/wrt54glqos.html

(the instructions are for the WRT54GL, but the basic QoS setup is essentially the same for the WRT54G, WRT54GS, and WRT54GL routers, running both stock firmware and the aftermarket stuff I use).

I have instructions there for de-optimizing BitTorrent so you can do normal surfing, too. You can ignore those parts and just get QoS tuned and get the MAC address of the Vonage router set to HIGHEST.

QoS seems to be a lot more effective, in my experience, if you turn flow control off on the Ethernet Port Priority fields. Not entirely sure why, but you can try that as well, and maybe it'll help you out.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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ekaim
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Fairfield County, CT

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Now you tell me. I just returned my configuration to an approximation of the way it was before trying taylor2767's suggestion. That is, I've now reconnected the cable modem directly to my RTP300 and am feeding my two PCs, WRT54G, and Moto VT 1005V (and one phone line) from the RTP300. The quality of service I was getting with the WRT54G cabled directly to the modem was far worse.

However, I had no idea of the ability to manage the settings of the WRT54G in the way your post indicates (and wasn't aware of your Vonage self-help info). I would like to try your suggestions, but let me make sure I understand the configuration you'd suggest. Should I put the WRT54G back into "first place" after the modem and feed everything else from that (with the mods advised in your post and self-help notes)?

_________________
- Location: Fairfield County, CT.
- ISP: Optimum Online (Cablevision).
- Upload : 1.55 Mbps; Download: 12.3 Mbps
- Motorola cable modem: Surfboard SBV5120
- Wireless router: Linksys WRT54GS
- Vonage adapters: (1) LinkSys RTP300; (2) Motorola VT2442
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