Sign up
 Vonage  

       
 
Vonage Forum Menu

Vonage Forums
Vonage VoIP Forum
Whitmarsh Posted:
The 'Vonage box'
is a Grandstream
HT-701 ATA. If
you download its
Used Guide, you
...

In The Forum:
Vonage UK
Topic:
Witholding Caller ID from display and the BT 1471 service
On Oct 26, 2014 at 00:04:03

Alfredvalo Posted:
online loans no
credit checks
payday loans
<a
href="http://payda
yloansonlinexl.com
">payday
...

In The Forum:
Vonage UK
Topic:
Payday credit since bad hold accountable
On Oct 25, 2014 at 02:55:52

Williamlix Posted:
...
In The Forum:
Vonage UK
Topic:
Tidiness cheap tadalafil generics now
On Oct 24, 2014 at 22:49:39

Robertdag Posted:
www.vonage-forum.c
om, leaked out
cable
television.ALL OF
US retains on to
crucial
...

In The Forum:
Vonage UK
Topic:
AlgollockJO
On Oct 24, 2014 at 19:21:27

lacjefeds Posted:
plus formatori
mai il cucciolo
relativa alla
traumi , in linea
con la
contenzioso
...

In The Forum:
Vonage UK
Topic:
UGG Vendita
On Oct 24, 2014 at 12:54:49

Whitmarsh Posted:
I have just
installed a V
system and it all
works fine except
for the date/time
on
...

In The Forum:
Vonage UK
Topic:
Vonage messes up date/time on Panasonic DECT phone
On Oct 22, 2014 at 09:41:43

TUBSUB Posted:
Vonage router does
not recognize a HP
2270DW printer.
Current setup is:
Comcast-modem
...

In The Forum:
Vonage
Topic:
HP Printer setup issue
On Oct 05, 2014 at 15:28:26

eltonlight Posted:
Is this supported
by Iphone6? I am
just curious.
...

In The Forum:
Vonage
Topic:
Use with iPhone, and switch to data-only plan?
On Sep 24, 2014 at 05:06:04

Jesse641 Posted:
Hi, I have Skype
installed on PC,
but I use it
mainly to talk for
free. Otherwise
...

In The Forum:
Vonage
Topic:
Click to call iPhone App
On Sep 06, 2014 at 13:27:05

UncleDuck Posted:
The quality of
voicemail has
deteriorated to
the point that it
requires listening
...

In The Forum:
Vonage
Topic:
Voicemail Quality and Playback Issues
On Aug 19, 2014 at 17:20:01


Vonage VoIP Forums

Vonage In The News
Vonage Holdings Corp. Reports Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2013 Results

Carolyn Katz Elected to Board of Directors of Vonage Holdings Corp.

Syndication

Vonage Customer Reviews
Vonage vs. Time Warner Cable SoCal
Vonage vs. Time Warner Cable SoCal



Vonage UK Review
Vonage UK Review



Vonage Pros and Cons for 2006
Vonage Pros and Cons for 2006



Vonage, a VT2142 and a RTP300, My Experiences - A Detailed Review
Vonage, a VT2142 and a RTP300, My Experiences - A Detailed Review



Salt Lake City: impressions after several months
Salt Lake City: impressions after several months




Vonage Reviews


Post new topic   Reply to topic  Vonage® VoIP Forum - Vonage News, Reviews And Discussion » Vonage Forum Archive
Author Message
kriswd40
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: How to tell if people on our network are using Vonage? Reply with quote Back to top

Hello all. I work for a local telephone company and we are running into legal issues because of services like Vonage. Our company offers phone, dialup, and DSL service in our area. The problem with Vonage is that if a user disconnects their phone service and keeps DSL, they are required by law (in Michigan at least) to pay for things like intrastate charges, 911 tolls, etc. If they keep their phone line, this is a non-issue because those things are being paid with their monthly bill.

We are looking for a way to determine if people on our network are using Vonage. As of this point, we are being forced to disconect a subscriber's DSL service because of this issue and the liabilities we open ourselves up to if we allow them to continue using Vonage without paying these state (or federal, I'm not sure) required tolls. Is there anything unusual about traffice generated by Vonage that we could track or is there a central server that all Vonage phones must connect to (and if so, any idea of a DNS name or IPAddress of said server)? We aren't wanting to evesdrop on conversations or anything like that, we just want to know if a customer is using this service.

Any help or comments are welcome. This is a new issue to us and we are trying best to deal with it. I'm an IT guy, not a lawyer, so I am only relaying what our legal team has told us.
View user's profile Send private message
navydavy2001
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 1125
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sir, I really don't think this is a good place to ask that question.

_________________
http://www.thejeffriestube.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
NateHoy
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I would contact Vonage on this. They may be able to work something out with your state to arrange payment of those charges, or use the FCC exemption to get around the need to pay them.

In any case, I would think that without an actual phone line, there would be no liability for 911 charges, since they cannot call 911 on a DSL line... ?

Or are you required to provide 911 dialtone on even basic DSL lines? And, if so, why are you not just adding the appropriate surcharge to all DSL lines? I'm failing to see how Vonage would be relevant to this. If they have a cell phone, wouldn't you end up with the same liability? Vonage is responsible for 911, and has an infrastructure set up to handle it.

I can see 911 tolls, though Vonage is instituting collection of some form of per-state 911 fee and that may cover it. But what exactly are "intrastate charges"?

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
View user's profile Send private message
DallasFlier
Vonage Forum Master
Vonage Forum Master


Joined: Mar 03, 2005
Posts: 277
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: How to tell if people on our network are using Vonage? Reply with quote Back to top

kriswd40 wrote:
The problem with Vonage is that if a user disconnects their phone service and keeps DSL, they are required by law (in Michigan at least) to pay for things like intrastate charges, 911 tolls, etc.

As of this point, we are being forced to disconect a subscriber's DSL service because of this issue and the liabilities we open ourselves up to if we allow them to continue using Vonage without paying these state (or federal, I'm not sure) required tolls.

Uhh, so let me get this straight. YOU offer DSL in addition to phone service, but you're having difficulties because when they disconnect their phone service and just keep the DSL, your billing system doesn't have enough information to charge taxes on their DSL bill???? So, you want to monitor Vonage useage and use THAT lame excuse to eventually block their Vonage service???? You might want to inform your legal department that:

A. I believe the FCC has held it illegal to block Voip traffic from your broadband customers. I'm guessing the FCC would also be very interested if you start disconnecting your DSL customers because they're using Vonage.

B. The problem, if its as you describe it (and it sounds dang fishy to me) is with your customer records and billing system, NOT with the Vonage useage on your network.

If you can't tell if they have DSL service in order to assess the proper taxes, then how, pray tell, are you billing them for the DSL service itself????

_________________
TWC 20M/2M w/Moto DOCSIS 3 --> WRT54G v2 (Tomato F/W) --> 4 PC's, 2 wireless; 4 networked DirecTV boxes; PS3 (powerline wired) & Wii (wireless) VT2442 (routing OFF), RTP300 (routing OFF) & V-Portal - Total of 4 Vonage lines
View user's profile Send private message
AFKsky
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 17, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Hello all. I work for a local telephone company and we are running into legal issues because of services like Vonage. Our company offers phone, dialup, and DSL service in our area. The problem with Vonage is that if a user disconnects their phone service and keeps DSL, they are required by law (in Michigan at least) to pay for things like intrastate charges, 911 tolls, etc. If they keep their phone line, this is a non-issue because those things are being paid with their monthly bill.

We are looking for a way to determine if people on our network are using Vonage. As of this point, we are being forced to disconect a subscriber's DSL service because of this issue and the liabilities we open ourselves up to if we allow them to continue using Vonage without paying these state (or federal, I'm not sure) required tolls. Is there anything unusual about traffice generated by Vonage that we could track or is there a central server that all Vonage phones must connect to (and if so, any idea of a DNS name or IPAddress of said server)? We aren't wanting to evesdrop on conversations or anything like that, we just want to know if a customer is using this service.

Any help or comments are welcome. This is a new issue to us and we are trying best to deal with it. I'm an IT guy, not a lawyer, so I am only relaying what our legal team has told us.


I know I am new here but this does not sound like something a tech will ask in a public forum.

_________________
Network Administrator
John R Wald Company Inc.
A+, Net+, Linux+, server+, MCSE 2003, CCNA.
View user's profile Send private message
navydavy2001
Vonage Forum MVM
Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 1125
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

"Sir, I really don't think this is a good place to ask that question."

Very Happy See?

_________________
http://www.thejeffriestube.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
EzCo
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 533
Location: Southeastern PA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: How to tell if people on our network are using Vonage? Reply with quote Back to top

Sounds fishy to me too. A repsentative from a local telco in Michigan is posting to a forum to try to figure out something as basic as that?
View user's profile Send private message
kriswd40
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:
In any case, I would think that without an actual phone line, there would be no liability for 911 charges, since they cannot call 911 on a DSL line... ?

Or are you required to provide 911 dialtone on even basic DSL lines? And, if so, why are you not just adding the appropriate surcharge to all DSL lines?


I don't know exactly WHAT we are required to charge on nor the full details of why we have to do it. It's been my understanding though that since they are still using our phone line for any form of phone service, there are certain fees that MUST be paid.

We have a revised billing plan for customers that are using Vonage with only DSL (no local phone service) but at this point, we only know the customer is using Vonage if they admit to it. They could be using a cellphone for telephone service as well, but without being able to determine that fact, we have been forced to disconect the customer unless they agree to pay the extra amount (which they should not have to do if they aren't using a service like Vonage).
View user's profile Send private message
kriswd40
Vonage Forum Associate
Vonage Forum Associate


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: How to tell if people on our network are using Vonage? Reply with quote Back to top

DallasFlier wrote:
Uhh, so let me get this straight. YOU offer DSL in addition to phone service, but you're having difficulties because when they disconnect their phone service and just keep the DSL, your billing system doesn't have enough information to charge taxes on their DSL bill???? So, you want to monitor Vonage useage and use THAT lame excuse to eventually block their Vonage service????


First off, we have no intention of blocking any services they want to use. I never said that, you did. But if they are using Vonage, we need to know so we can assess the aditional fees they are required to pay. If they are not using Vonage, (maybe using a cellphone for their telephone service), we should not have to charge them these fees.

Secondly, we know when they have DSL and bill accordingly. The issue isn't if they have DSL, it is if they are using Vonage over DSL without ALSO subscribing to a local telephone number.
View user's profile Send private message
EzCo
Vonage Forum Evangelist
Vonage Forum Evangelist


Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 533
Location: Southeastern PA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think your legal department should probably hire some lawyers. If what they are saying is true, then EVERY ISP that does business in Michigan would have to charge the same taxes. I'm not just talking about consumer broadband, but everything. Any home user, business, etc., with any kind of Internet access would be charged those fees, because you never know, they may be using a Voip provider.


Last edited by EzCo on Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


All times are GMT - 5 Hours

Vonage Service Plans


Vonage VoIP Members
Members List Members
New PDanglow
New Today 3
Yesterday 14
Total 84303

Who Is On Site
Visitors 175
Members 3
Total 178


Vonage VoIP Forum Members:
Login Here
Not a Member? You can Register Here
As a registered member you will have access to the VoIP Speed Test, Vonage Service Announcements and post comments in the
Vonage VoIP Forums

Vonage Stock Price
Value: 3.37
Change:   -0.01
Up to 15 Minute Delay

Site Search
 






†AK and HI residents pay $29.95 shipping. ††Limited time offer. Valid for residents of the United States (&DC), 18 years or older, who open new accounts. Offer good while supplies last and only on new account activations. One kit per account/household. Offer cannot be combined with any other discounts, promotions or plans and is not applicable to past purchases. Good while supplies last. Allow up to 2 weeks for shipping. Other restrictions may apply.

1Unlimited calling and other services for all residential plans are based on normal residential, personal, non-commercial use. A combination of factors is used to determine abnormal use, including but not limited to: the number of unique numbers called, calls forwarded, minutes used and other factors. Subject to our Reasonable Use Policy and Terms of Service.

2Shipping and activation fees waived with 1-year agreement. An Early Termination Fee (with periodic pro-rated reductions) applies if service is terminated before the end of the first 12 months. Additional restrictions may apply. See Terms of Service for details.

HIGH SPEED INTERNET REQUIRED. †VALID FOR NEW LINES ONLY. RATES EXCLUDE INTERNET SERVICE, SURCHARGES, FEES AND TAXES. DEVICE MAY BE REFURBISHED. If you subscribe to plans with monthly minutes allotments, all call minutes placed from both from your home and registered ExtensionsTM phones will count toward your monthly minutes allotment. ExtensionsTM calls made from mobiles use airtime and may incur surcharges, depending on your mobile plan. Alarms, TTY and other systems may not be compatible. Vonage 911 service operates differently than traditional 911. See www.vonage.com/911 for details.

** Certain call types excluded.

www.vonage-forum.com is not an official Vonage support website & is independently operated.
All logos and trademarks are property of their respective owners. All comments are property of their posters.
All other www.vonage-forum.com content is © Copyright 2002 - 2013 by 4Sight Media LLC.

Thinking of signing up for Vonage but have questions?
Business and Residential customers can call Toll Free 24 hours a day at: 1-888-692-8074
No Vonage Promotion Code or Coupon Codes are required at www.vonage.com to receive any special,
best Vonage cheap deals, free sign up offers or discounts.

[ | | | | | ]

Vonage Forum Site Maps

Vonage | VoIP Forum | How VoIP Works | Wiring and Installation Page Two | International Rate Plans 2 | Internet Phone
Promotion | Vonage Review | VoIP | Broadband Phone | Free Month | Rebate | Vonnage | Vontage | VoIP | Phone Service
Phone | llamadas ilimitadas a Mexico | Latest News | VoIP Acronyms | Deal | Philippines Globe Phone | Site Maps

The Vonage Forum provides the Vonage sign up Best Offer Promotion Deal.
If you are considering signing up for Vonage and have found our Vonage News, Customer Reviews, Forums
& all other parts of this site useful, please use our Vonage Sign up page.


Vonage VoIP Phone Service is redefining communications by offering consumers
& small business VoIP Internet phones, an affordable alternative to traditional phone service.
The Vonage VoIP Forum Generated This Page In: 0.83 Seconds and 496 Pages In The Last 60 Seconds
The Vonage VoIP Forum