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kriswd40
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Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

navydavy2001 wrote:
BS! If we are paying 911 regulatory fees to Vonage, our service provider, why should we pay them twice? Because legal beagles say, "Oh, yeah, well, we're the pipe they use, so let's get ours too." Your a data pipe in this respect, and you don't provide these people SQUAT in the way of telephone services.


Yes, you shouldn't have to pay twice. And yes, it's just being used for data... I agree with that. I'm just reinterating what I've been told... I understand our reason for doing this less since the start of this post. It was my initial impression that Vonage did NOT have you paying for things like 911 tolls.

Quote:
Yeah, because they're going to readily tell you how to do that exactly.

If you haven't noticed yet, the information you seek cannot be found here.
I got that by page one, not a single response has been about the technical issues (which is what I want) but rather about the legal issues.
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EzCo
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Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Posts: 533
Location: Southeastern PA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This thread really needs to be locked.
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dmesser
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Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
We are a telephone service provider and are providing the telephone line they are using to get online and use Vonage, hence why we must make these charges.


No. Actually you aren't. You are a transport provider if you provide DSL. You are not the telephone service provider in this case, therefore you have no legal right nor obligation to tax, tarif or levy other fees for such purposes.



Quote:
Because they had nothing on Vonage's site about how to do this and I was hoping that someone here could go "Oh, I know how to do that" and give me a simple answer rather than sitting on hold, and bouncing around from person to person at Vonage. I haven't called Vonage personally, but tech support these days is aweful and getting worse as they continue to ship call centers overseas.


Okay, if you happen to be legit (which I have my doubts), you are going about this entirely wrong. Clearly, you are not the most technical person at your branch. But, you must have some techs there. Right?

Also, your legal department should be fired if they have let the research for this fall to you. No. This sounds like some middle executive has his undies in a bunch over Vonage and is trying to figure out ways to make cash on a situation he has zero control over. If I were you, I'd go back to your boss and tell him EXACTLY what you are finding out here.
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navydavy2001
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Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 1125
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think Dan is "on a beach" somewhere at the moment. It would have been locked by now. We always get out of hand when he's not around. Very Happy

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dmesser
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

EzCo wrote:
This thread really needs to be locked.


I don't agree. The original poster is beginning to question the reason for the task he's been asked to do. Keep the thread open. I think we're opening someone's eyes, here.
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VonageTPA
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: How to tell if people on our network are using Vonage? Reply with quote Back to top

kriswd40 wrote:
First off, we have no intention of blocking any services they want to use. I never said that, you did. But if they are using Vonage, we need to know so we can assess the aditional fees they are required to pay. If they are not using Vonage, (maybe using a cellphone for their telephone service), we should not have to charge them these fees.
Secondly, we know when they have DSL and bill accordingly. The issue isn't if they have DSL, it is if they are using Vonage over DSL without ALSO subscribing to a local telephone number.


None of these are real issues. Vonage is thier "phone co", not too dissimilar from a CLEC. It's up to Vonage to handle all of the regulatory fees, etc. As far as charging more/different rates for what customers run over their DSL connection isn't going to work, far more effort than it's worth.

_________________
ISP: Varies depending where I'm at.
Vonage: Linksys RTP300
Router: IPCop 1.4.10
Phones: various
Total calls since Jul 24, 2005: 4,794 calls
Total Minutes since Jul 24, 2005: 25,552 minutes
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kriswd40
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Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

dmesser wrote:
Okay, if you happen to be legit (which I have my doubts), you are going about this entirely wrong. Clearly, you are not the most technical person at your branch. But, you must have some techs there. Right?


That's a cheap shot. I'm looking for something like an IP/DNS address of where these phones go or something special to differentiate their traffic from other internet traffic... it's all IP, it all looks the same. Technically, it is a very EASY thing to do IF i can find such information.

Lemme ask this, does Vonage have you pay: Federal Access Charges, Federal Universal Service Charges, and Lifeline Surcharges? We are forced to bill customers for these on all our POTS lines.

Somewhere along the line, someone in our legal department must have determined that something isn't being paid that needs to be paid.


Last edited by kriswd40 on Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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dmesser
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kriswd40, I'd love to help you out. Probably the best way to figure this out is to use Vonage yourself. I'd be more than happy to get you signed up with a Vonage account so you can explore the technical aspects on your own.

Just give me the word and I'll refer you right away.

Smile
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VonageTPA
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

um... you better do some research on those fees before you even consider proceeding further. The "Federal Access Charge" is *NOT* required under federal law, nor is it a tax. This is "charge" goes straight to the phone co's pockets. The federal gov't allows it to be charged to all TELEPHONE (not DSL) service subscribers, to a maximum of $6.50/month, which happens to be what both Verizon and Sprint charge for their local service. Lifeline charges also aren't taxes, just charges the phone co's charge. Your company is *NOT*, I repeat, NOT required to charge these. It's permitted to do so under FCC guidelines, but is by NO means required.

As far as what you're required to charge for DSL, the only "other" fee that Verizon charges is the FUSF Recovery Fee for their DSL service. See this link for more info on this fee: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/charges.html


Now, there *IS* a federal excise tax of 3%, which Vonage does charge, because it's a real tax, not cleverly-worded hidden cost tacked on. Vonage is also collecting $1/month for 911 service as well.

If you really are truly concerned about these fees & such, go after SunRocket, as they proudly advertise that they have none of these fees/taxes.

_________________
ISP: Varies depending where I'm at.
Vonage: Linksys RTP300
Router: IPCop 1.4.10
Phones: various
Total calls since Jul 24, 2005: 4,794 calls
Total Minutes since Jul 24, 2005: 25,552 minutes

Last edited by VonageTPA on Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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navydavy2001
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Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 1125
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Lemme ask this, does Vonage have you pay: Federal Access Charges, Federal Universal Service Charges, and Lifeline Surcharges?

I pay this:

FET Tax $1.05
Regulatory Recovery Fee $3.00

As for the other charges, NO, they are not federally mandated to be charged or paid.

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