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kriswd40
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

navydavy2001 wrote:
I'll just add to Nate's comments that it's well documented that Michigan does NOT like Voip and what it means to traditional wireline companies, and have even sued (unsuccessfully) Vonage in the past. Your legal team SHOULD talk to Vonage directly. Nevermind that it's inappropriate and unprofessional to "get the real poop" or "sneak around" to find the answer here.

Most of the Vonage servers are located in Shangri La, if that helps. Very Happy


I'm not sneaking around. My boss came to me, explained the issues, and asked me "Is there a way to determine if a customer is using Vonage?" So that's what I'm trying to determine Smile
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EzCo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kriswd40 wrote:


I'm not sneaking around. My boss came to me, explained the issues, and asked me "Is there a way to determine if a customer is using Vonage?" So that's what I'm trying to determine Smile


To answer your question, yes there is, but I don't think you're going to get the answer here. I think it's reasonable to go back to your boss and ask what you should do about the other half dozen (or so, maybe a lot more) Voip providers. Vonage is just one of them you "need" to worry about.
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kriswd40
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

EzCo wrote:
navydavy2001 wrote:
Your legal team SHOULD talk to Vonage directly. Nevermind that it's inappropriate and unprofessional to "get the real poop" or "sneak around" to find the answer here.
Very Happy


I think that's the salient point here. Your company is trying to use the IT department to snoop on user traffic to solve a potential legal/billing issue, which just doesn't scale. Like NavyDavy says, you should push back and tell your legal dept. to go do their jobs and contact Vonage, and by the way, all the other Voip providers as well so see how to properly address the issue.

They may also want to contact other telcos in Michigan to see what they do. You're not the only telco in Michigan, so go see how everyone else is handling this.


I can certainly mention this, but it's not my department so I wouldn't expect my opinion to hold much weight with them. That's one of the unfortunate aspects of the corperate environment... even when what you suggest makes a ton of sence, it's not my area of expertice so automatically I know nothing about it.
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dmesser
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
We want to know IF they are using Vonage so we DON'T have to unnessasarily charge those that aren't. As of now, without knowing, we are forced to charge them as if they were.


This sounds like complete and total el torro kahkah to me.

First of all, what kind of tech are you if you don't know how to monitor IP port usage?

Second, you shouldn't be responsible for billing these charges as you are not the telephone service provider.

Third, why aren't you working directly with Vonage to resolve this? Why are you asking a bunch of end-users in a public forum?

Finally, why would we as end users want to help you charge us more? We left the telco to get away from all the nickle and dime BS.

This is hokier than the Nigerian money scam.
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maryjane
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: How to tell if people on our network are using Vonage? Reply with quote Back to top

kriswd40 wrote:
Hello all. I work for a local telephone company and we are running into legal issues because of services like Vonage.
We are looking for a way to determine if people on our network are using Vonage. As of this point, we are being forced to disconect a subscriber's DSL service because of this issue and the liabilities we open ourselves up to if we allow them to continue using Vonage without paying these state (or federal, I'm not sure) required tolls. Any help or comments are welcome. This is a new issue to us and we are trying best to deal with it. I'm an IT guy, not a lawyer, so I am only relaying what our legal team has told us.


kris wd40 who is the We - in We are looking for a way to determine..ect...

It would only be fair to inform everyone here which "supposed" phone company your referring to since you have stated Vonage as a company your supposedly zoning in on? If you cannot name the company you claim to work for then you are most definitely full of poo

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kriswd40
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

EzCo wrote:
kriswd40 wrote:


I'm not sneaking around. My boss came to me, explained the issues, and asked me "Is there a way to determine if a customer is using Vonage?" So that's what I'm trying to determine Smile


To answer your question, yes there is, but I don't think you're going to get the answer here. I think it's reasonable to go back to your boss and ask what you should do about the other half dozen (or so, maybe a lot more) Voip providers. Vonage is just one of them you "need" to worry about.


Vonage is the major player from what we can tell and that's why we started there.

You should see what Charter Communications can see about their customers... I used to have them for cable modem services at my home and it's scarey what they know... they called me one day and told me to the LETTER the filename of something i was downloading.... they monitor every aspect of everything you do. Don't think they don't know what you are doing.

We've taken a differant approach with our company, more of a don't ask, don't tell type thing. We don't monitor anything (other than bandwidth) which I have been told amounts to if we don't know what users are doing, we can't be held accountable for it. For some reason, the higher ups don't feel this applies to services like Vonage though... so looking the other way at things like file sharing is okay, but we better not let a few tolls/taxes slip by us. Of course, our bread and butter is POTS, not filesharing.
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kriswd40
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="dmesser"]
Quote:
First of all, what kind of tech are you if you don't know how to monitor IP port usage?


I do know how to do that, but I don't know what differenciates Vonage traffic from other forms of internet/email traffic. Being that it is Voice Over IP, it should look like nothing more than normal IP traffic.

Quote:
Second, you shouldn't be responsible for billing these charges as you are not the telephone service provider.


We are a telephone service provider and are providing the telephone line they are using to get online and use Vonage, hence why we must make these charges.

Quote:
Third, why aren't you working directly with Vonage to resolve this? Why are you asking a bunch of end-users in a public forum?


Because they had nothing on Vonage's site about how to do this and I was hoping that someone here could go "Oh, I know how to do that" and give me a simple answer rather than sitting on hold, and bouncing around from person to person at Vonage. I haven't called Vonage personally, but tech support these days is aweful and getting worse as they continue to ship call centers overseas.
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navydavy2001
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Of course, our bread and butter is POTS, not filesharing.

I'm glad you said that, since it sums up mostly what your legal dept is probably trying to do.

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navydavy2001
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

We are a telephone service provider and are providing the telephone line they are using to get online and use Vonage, hence why we must make these charges.

BS! If we are paying 911 regulatory fees to Vonage, our service provider, why should we pay them twice? Because legal beagles say, "Oh, yeah, well, we're the pipe they use, so let's get ours too." Your a data pipe in this respect, and you don't provide these people SQUAT in the way of telephone services.

"I haven't called Vonage personally, but tech support these days is aweful and getting worse as they continue to ship call centers overseas."

Yeah, because they're going to readily tell you how to do that exactly.

If you haven't noticed yet, the information you seek cannot be found here.

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AFKsky
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Very Happy
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