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BigDaveB
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Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Comcast says that it has been working with Vonage to investigate the situation, and that the independent Voip provider indicated the problem was an isolated issue on their end and had nothing to do with the Comcast connection.

Interesting! So multiple service reports to "contact Comcast" for "Midwest customers" with appearance of problems toward the Vonage side now turns out to be "an isolated issue on their end and had nothing to do with the Comcast connection".

Well, at least I can rest assured that it's not my premises wiring, cookies or cable modem!!! Rolling Eyes
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Mvdyk03
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Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

BigDaveB wrote:
Comcast says that it has been working with Vonage to investigate the situation, and that the independent Voip provider indicated the problem was an isolated issue on their end and had nothing to do with the Comcast connection.

Interesting! So multiple service reports to "contact Comcast" for "Midwest customers" with appearance of problems toward the Vonage side now turns out to be "an isolated issue on their end and had nothing to do with the Comcast connection".

Well, at least I can rest assured that it's not my premises wiring, cookies or cable modem!!! Rolling Eyes


Agreed. If this is the official Vonage position on this nonsense (that it's an isolated Vonage problem), then, as a paying Vonage subscriber, I demand that a Vonage representative appear on this thread and explain the repeated service announcements in which Vonage users in the upper midwest were instructed to call Comcast about the problem. Moreover, I demand to be told what the "isolated issue" is so that I can determine for myself whether the risk of recurrence is acceptable to me. Everyone here knows that Vonage is monitoring this thread, so it's not like they won't hear this. So, what's your explanation?
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shaydes
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:16 pm    Post subject: Comcast vs. Vonage Reply with quote Back to top

Comcast in Bay Area says that max upload speed varies from 384Kbps to 768Kbp. I don't remember getting that speed but get enough (300+) for multiple Voip calls. I haven't been able to use the 3-way calling feature on my Vonage service, voice quality has gone down Mad. When I called Vonage tech support & went through speed/bandwidth test with them, they told me that I wasn't getting enough upload speed/bandwidth.
I moved from NH to CA over a year back. I had the same combination in NH, Comcast cable & Vonage Voip service. I had no complaints then, either with the features or quality of calls. I was able to make 3-way calls then, voice quality was good to excellent. I guess Comcast providing Voip service has nothing to do with this Rolling Eyes
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Movado
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: Feb 16, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

"Because Vonage competes directly with the telephone service of the network operators that also provide high-speed Internet access, the incentives to discriminate against us are clear," said Jeffrey Citron, Vonage Chairman and CEO, during a recent Senate hearing on Net Neutrality. "Most recently, major phone company executives seem to suggest that our service isn't going to work as well if we don't pay them additional fees."

This is what is happening and I bet my life on it at this point.


Comcast is technically not BLOCKING Vonage. As for Vonage claiming the issue is not Comcast is clear insanity on Vonages side.
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Movado
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Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes of course they are working on it. Negotiating price is what is happening.
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Movado
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Joined: Feb 16, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
A seven-year-old Mountain View, Calif., company, Narus Inc., has devised a way for telephone companies to detect data packets belonging to Voip applications and block the calls. For example, now when someone in Riyadh clicks on Skype's "call" button, Narus's software, installed on the carrier's network, swoops into action. It analyzes the packets flowing across the network, notices what protocols they adhere to, and flags the call as Voip. In most cases, it can even identify the specific software being used, such as Skype's.

Narus's software can "secure, analyze, monitor, and mediate any traffic in an IP network," says Antonio Nucci, the company's chief technology officer. By "mediate" he means block, or otherwise interfere with, data packets as they travel through the network in real time.

Another of Narus's Skype-blocking customers is Giza Systems, a consulting company that specializes in information technologies. Giza, which is based in Cairo, Egypt, installed Narus's software on the network of a Middle Eastern carrier in the spring. Nucci wouldn't say which one, but presumably it is Telecom Egypt, the national phone company. Narus already has a close relationship with the carrier, having written the software for its billing system.

The desire to block or charge for Voip phone calls extends far beyond the Middle East. According to Jay Thomas, Narus's vice president of product marketing, it can be found in South America, Asia, and Europe. International communications giant Vodafone recently announced a plan to block Voip calls in Germany, Thomas says. A French wireless carrier, SFR, has announced a similar plan for France.

Nor is it just Skype that's at risk. Most international telephone calling cards also use Voip technology.

In the United States and many other countries, a phone company's common carrier status prevents it from blocking potentially competitive services.

"But there's nothing that keeps a carrier in the United States from introducing jitter, so the quality of the conversation isn't good," Thomas says. "So the user will either pay for the carrier's voice-over-Internet application, which brings revenue to the carrier, or pay the carrier for a premium service that allows Skype use to continue. You can deteriorate the service, introduce latency [audible delays in hearing the other end of the line], and also offer a premium to improve it."

U.S. broadband-cable companies are considered information services, which by law gives them the right to block Voip calls. Comcast Corp., in Philadelphia, the country's largest cable company, is already a Narus customer; Thomas declined to say whether Comcast uses the VoIP-blocking capabilities.



How very interesting!!! *Note Comcast IS a Customer of this type of software. And boy it sure sounds exactly like what is going on. HMMMMM wondering how much Vonage is going to fork up?

Neighther side is going to want their customers to know what is happening of course.



Link


And yet another article:

Quote:
Retaliation comes courtesy of software created by Mountain View, CA-based Narus. Its software can detect and identify Voip packets traversing the switched telecom network. It can even tell a lot of times which software, like Skype or Vonage, generated the call.

German users will be introduced to Narus soon. Wireless communications giant Vodafone plans to implement the technology there. A French carrier, SFR, intends to do the same, the report said.

In the US, common carrier status prevents telecoms from blocking those calls. But they could use Narus to interfere with Voip traffic enough to make it "jitter," Narus' VP of product marketing said in the article.


Note it can determine who the packets are coming from and also note it is not illegal for a company to interfere with the quality of Voip traffic. And as I have been saying they are technically not BLOCKING traffic. Which is why I believe they have been told to work it out in the marketplace.
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devnuller
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Movado wrote:
"Because Vonage competes directly with the telephone service of the network operators that also provide high-speed Internet access, the incentives to discriminate against us are clear," said Jeffrey Citron, Vonage Chairman and CEO, during a recent Senate hearing on Net Neutrality. "Most recently, major phone company executives seem to suggest that our service isn't going to work as well if we don't pay them additional fees."

This is what is happening and I bet my life on it at this point.


Comcast is technically not BLOCKING Vonage. As for Vonage claiming the issue is not Comcast is clear insanity on Vonages side.


I'll take that bet.... Look at all the data and the recent press based on facts vs the mob FUD / conspiracy theories that are being spread. I'm amazed at the extremely poor signal to noise ratio in this thread. You would think that more people would actually use traceroute and other tools to narrow down the problem before posting rants.
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devnuller
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hey... Maybe it is AT&T... They are a Comcast and Vonage provider...

See how easy it is to spread rumors without facts...


Broadband News..
AT&T Over-Subscription Issues?
Users in midwest, west coast frustrated
Posted 2006-03-03 15:43:52

AT&T (formerly SBC) customers in Northern and Southern California, and in the Midwest have been complaining of significant network slowdown for several weeks now. Users in those areas report significant packet loss, high latency, and halved speeds. No official word from AT&T on the cause; users speculate that the popularity of new higher-speed tiers are clogging network capacity.
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Movado
Vonage Forum Junior
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Joined: Feb 16, 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Here is my solution a phone that uses POTS and Voip together.
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Mvdyk03
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

devnuller wrote:
I'm amazed at the extremely poor signal to noise ratio in this thread. You would think that more people would actually use traceroute and other tools to narrow down the problem before posting rants.


I can only assume that you haven't read the whole thread? Most of us who have been actively using this thread used all reasonable means of isolating the problem (including traceroutes, pingplotter, etc.) before calling the service providers only to find out they were pointing the finger at one another. The reason it has devolved into rants is because those tools coupled with the symptoms tend to suggest a problem at Comcast on the outbound/up side in an isolated geographic area (i.e. the upper midwest); so most of us dutifully called Vonage and Comcast (both because Vonage said it was a Comcast problem and because that's what the data indicated) and got jerked around. Now, because there has been no solution and no admission of responsibility of a clear problem and the consumer is helpless, the thread had devolved into rants. This is the story the thread tells. It also tells you that, in the end, Comcast and Vonage can stare you in the face and tell you that black is white without batting an eye -- the only recourse for which is complaints to your State's AG office and/or public services commision and/or the FCC. It is a sad, sad state of affairs.
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