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crose
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Joined: Jan 17, 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Murr2K-

Quote:
Hey, you didnt say anything about -my- post! =p


Sorry, I was a little bleary-eyed when I read NateHoy's response. :0)

I have the high-speed, extra $10/mo option from Shaw now, their "Extreme-I" service. When I called a rep yesterday about the "QoS" service, they said it was simply the "Extreme-I" and that I already had it.

It seems to me that there might be some confusion, even with the customer support rep's, although a real QoS service that reduced latency on their network could make a real difference for Voip traffic.

I'm getting download speeds similar to what you are seeing, though my packet discards are quite high (IMO).

Thanks,

Charles
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DLCPhoto
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Joined: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm having a similar issue, as a potential customer.

When I go to DSLReports, and do the Line Test (seems the most useful to track this down), it is unable to do full testing, indicating that the IP Address I provided is not pingable. I used their site, including the Java applet, to determine the IP Address, and that is what I used. I can ping it from my computer.

I am using a LinkSys WRT54G, as well as ZoneAlarm Free, so I imagine this is part of the problem.

So what do I need to do to enable this test to be done properly, without jeopardizing my computer's security?

Thanks.

Don
DLC Photography

P.S. I spent some time on the phone with Vonage Tech Support yesterday, asking for their assistance in identifying the source of this problem. He was unable to provide specific suggestions on this, but he had me Tracert to a couple of IP Addresses he provided, and since I had no problems there, then I shouldn't have any problem with Vonage service. I think he indicated that at least one of them was one of their servers, but I'm not 100% certain of this. Offered FWIW.
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reebok
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Posts: 3198
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

that test probably won't be useful but if you directly connect the comp to the modem and turn off zonealarm it should work. you can also turn off the firewall at the router config screen if that's easier for you.
I wouldn't worry about compromising your computer's security for 5 minutes (or 5 years but that's just me). if you're extrememly paranoid about it, don't do it at all. again, you probably won't get any indication of an issue, esp if everything else is fine.

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DLCPhoto
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Joined: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

reebok wrote:
that test probably won't be useful but if you directly connect the comp to the modem and turn off zonealarm it should work. you can also turn off the firewall at the router config screen if that's easier for you.
I wouldn't worry about compromising your computer's security for 5 minutes (or 5 years but that's just me). if you're extrememly paranoid about it, don't do it at all. again, you probably won't get any indication of an issue, esp if everything else is fine.


Many thanks for the quick reply. What you say makes sense, in terms of the trouble doing the test.

But other posts here imply that it could potentially provide information to track down the source of Packet Discards. That is my primary problem, when I run the tests at TestYourVOIP.COM. My cable-modem connection has a 450kbps up and 4500 kbps down, and I would have expected a 4.4 up and down on their tests.

My results range between 3.3 and 3.8 on the uplink, with most of the problem attributed to Packet Discards (which run from 1.5 to 3.5% or so). I'm a solid 4.4 on the downlink side.

So I'm trying to figure out what is causing this, and therefore what can be done to fix it. Any thoughts appreciated.

Don
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johnson98
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Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Posts: 23
Location: Hillsborough, NJ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:
Murr2k wrote:
Also ask Shaw about their optional "QoS enhancement"... costs $10 extra per month. They say it's supposed to help Voip traffic. I bought it to before I got Voip to improve my real-time gaming. I believe it did make a difference. I always got 4870kbps download speed before and after the enhancement (speakeasy.net/speedtest) but now it is far less bursty. Your mileage may vary.


INTERESTING!

So Shaw is deoptimizing traffic so they can sell you higher QoS at an additional charge.

Sweet way to make money.


I wouldn't call it deoptimizing traffic but basic or best effort traffic (a.k.a Internet).

It sounds like for $10/mo. you get priority/premium service and ALL your traffic has a higher priority than your neighbor's traffic.

One thing I'd be curious about is whether your traffic is carried across their backbone as high priority traffic or if it's only on your local cable connection (Headend -> home). Also, once they handoff the traffic to either their transit provider or peer, all bet are off when it comes to QoS.
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DLCPhoto
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Joined: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

DLCPhoto wrote:
reebok wrote:
that test probably won't be useful but if you directly connect the comp to the modem and turn off zonealarm it should work. you can also turn off the firewall at the router config screen if that's easier for you.
I wouldn't worry about compromising your computer's security for 5 minutes (or 5 years but that's just me). if you're extrememly paranoid about it, don't do it at all. again, you probably won't get any indication of an issue, esp if everything else is fine.


Many thanks for the quick reply. What you say makes sense, in terms of the trouble doing the test.

But other posts here imply that it could potentially provide information to track down the source of Packet Discards. That is my primary problem, when I run the tests at TestYourVOIP.COM. My cable-modem connection has a 450kbps up and 4500 kbps down, and I would have expected a 4.4 up and down on their tests.

My results range between 3.3 and 3.8 on the uplink, with most of the problem attributed to Packet Discards (which run from 1.5 to 3.5% or so). I'm a solid 4.4 on the downlink side.

So I'm trying to figure out what is causing this, and therefore what can be done to fix it. Any thoughts appreciated.

Don


Just bumping this question to the top, so hopefully it can be addressed. I just did a testyourvoip to Boston, and got only a 3.2, with 3.9% Packet Discards accounting for 68.6% of the MOS figure.

Anybody?

Don
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DLCPhoto
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Joined: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

As a further follow-up to the Packet Discard issue:

Just for kicks, I disconnected my cable-modem, and initiated a Dial-Up, getting a 46 kbps connection. I then ran TestYourVoip and found the following:

MOS 4.2 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)

Degradation Sources
Codec 0.57 68.1%
Latency 0.16 19.1%
Packet Discards 0.11 12.7%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 397 ms
Packet Discards 0.5%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 40 ms
Avg: 40 ms
Max: 40 ms
Random Loss

Jitter Min: 0 ms
Avg: 10 ms
Max: 30 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Dial Delay 437 ms
Call Setup Time 484 ms
Media Delay 781 ms
MOS Analysis FROM Boston To You

Media Quality MOS 3.7 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)

Degradation Sources
Codec 0.57 44.6%
Latency 0.20 15.8%
Packet Discards 0.51 39.5%
Packet Loss 0.00 0.0%

Codec G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
20ms RTP payload,
80kbps IP BW)
Round-Trip
Latency 397 ms
Packet Discards 2.4%
Packet Loss 0.0%
Loss Periods Min: 20 ms
Avg: 80 ms
Max: 220 ms
Burst Loss

Jitter Min: 4 ms
Avg: 7 ms
Max: 152 ms

Signaling Quality Post-Pickup Delay 383 ms
Call Setup Time 384 ms
Media Delay 415 ms



On the Uplink side, it gave me a 4.2!!! The best I have gotten with my cable-modem, which is 10x faster (450 kbps), is 3.8 (average 3.3 to 3.7). I plugged in my Laptop to the same cable-modem connection, and got similar results to my Desktop.

So there is clearly a problem with my cable-modem ISP, in terms of Packet Discards. Bandwidth is excellent, and there is no Packet Loss - only Packet Discards.

I have already contacted my ISP, who, from their end, checked my cable-modem and line, and said everything is performing to their specs. I need to know what is causing this Packet Discard issue, as specifically as possible, so I can call them back, and direct them to the source of this problem.

Thanks.

Don
DLC Photography

P.S. To clarify, I do not yet have a Vonage system installed, but am researching to see whether it's worth the trial. This is the only issue I've identified that suggests that my outgoing connection quality may be a problem.
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