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blakadher
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 476
Location: Vancouver, WA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kpdillon wrote:
I certainly did. Again where does Vonage state that you cannot use a personal line for business? Every household and business is different in terms of usage. And the usage policies ought to be followed. I'm certainly no lawyer but I don't see any rule against using my personal Vonage line to conduct business as long it's within the usage guidelines. i wouldn't try to setup a help desk call center with a personal line, but certainly I think its within reason and all rules to use a personal line to conduct business as long as it's within the "residential usage" limits that they refer. Again, I don't see where Vonage states that you cannot use a personal line for business. Tell me where I'm wrong.

I'm not sure if you're being purposely obtuse or just "not getting it." The TOS clearly states that business use is not allowed on a residential line. And whether it's residential or business use is left at the sole discretion of Vonage, again per the TOS. Now, if your business use is so infrequent as to not be construed as such, you're probably fine. You can argue that you are using it for business within the residential usage guidelines, but if Vonage says it's business use, then it's business use. There's no arbitration or mediation, it's at the sole discretion of Vonage. Do what you want, though. I'm not going to argue semantics. If you have a different interpretation of the TOS then, by all means, bring it up with Vonage and see what they think.
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kpdillon
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Mr. Blakadher writes
Quote:
I'm not sure if you're being purposely obtuse or just "not getting it."


With all due respect Mr. Blakadher, maybe I am not "getting it" as you state. I'll accept that as a possibility. I hope your comment wasn't meant as a personal attack.

Quote:
The TOS clearly states that business use is not allowed on a residential line.


Then show me which part of the TOS clearly states that business use is not allowed on a residential line. I have not yet seen it on the Vonage website, nor in the copy and pastes of the TOS posted here.

I think we can agree that Vonage or any other service provider for that matter reserves the rights to modify its TOS at anytime for any reason. And for that reason alone, each should evaluate their own needs and decide which plan is and will be most appropriate for their individual use.

As of today I have not found it stated by Vonage in the current TOS or any where else that a residential line cannot be used to conduct business.

Happy New Year!

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Steve48
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kpdillon wrote:
Then show me which part of the TOS clearly states that business use is not allowed on a residential line. I have not yet seen it on the Vonage website, nor in the copy and pastes of the TOS posted here.


I gather that you don't interpret the statement "the Service and the Device are provided to you solely for residential use" to mean non-business, as I did.

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kpdillon
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Steve48 Wrote:
Quote:
I gather that you don't interpret the statement "the Service and the Device are provided to you solely for residential use" to mean non-business, as I did.


That is correct, I don't interpret that statement that way whatsoever. "Residential use", "non-business use" and "pig latin" are three very separate topics. If Vonage states that a residential line cannot be used to conduct business or speak pig latin then so be it, but they don't. If they did mean that, then they would state that. I give them credit, I think Vonage has worded their TOS very carefully as to not state something utterly ridiculous.

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ManInBlack
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kpdillon wrote:

That is correct, I don't interpret that statement that way whatsoever. "Residential use", "non-business use" and "pig latin" are three very separate topics. If Vonage states that a residential line cannot be used to conduct business or speak pig latin then so be it, but they don't. If they did mean that, then they would state that. I give them credit, I think Vonage has worded their TOS very carefully as to not state something utterly ridiculous.


100% agree. I can find nothing in the TOS that says I cannot make business calls on a residential line. Reading the TOS, it seems to me that Vonage are concerned about behavior and not content. If a line exhibits high usage from 9-5 and not much outside of that, I'd expect to hear from them (I know another provider does this). In my case I use the line for both personal and business and the biz amounts to 2 hours tal time on my busiest day. If they want to accuse me of a violation of TOS they would have to be be listening to my calls to prove it. In which case they are in deep trouble. Unlike our President Rolling Eyes .
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rla
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Business vs Personal Reply with quote Back to top

I bet no matter what the circumstance Vonage is probably going to tell you that if you use that residential service for business then you are going to be required to have business service.

In reality I bet if you are a professional and you go home from the office and get a business related call you won't catch a lot of heat. A lot of lawyers, medical people and other professionals are already in this situation and since you can take Vonage on the road it is probable that a few traveling professionals get calls from the boss or clients.

I'm sure no Vonage expert, but it doesn't take a lot of work for an analyst to see when a network service is out of line in terms of traffic. I don't think I or any other customer is going to be able to tell you how Vonage is going to react to specific circumstances. I do think it is safe to predict that Vonage will protect its business interests. If they feel that your usage is out of line or matches a profile I have to believe they will check things out and call you on it. I suppose if you post your Vonage residential number on a business web site or pass around enough flyers or business cards you are asking for it. If you want some solid back and white definitiions on this issue then the TOS makes it pretty clear that Vonage gets to make the call on when you have crossed the line. Other than that good luck.
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blakadher
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

kpdillon wrote:
With all due respect Mr. Blakadher, maybe I am not "getting it" as you state. I'll accept that as a possibility. I hope your comment wasn't meant as a personal attack.

Relax, Francis. That's my way of indicating that I'm unsure whether you are being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative or if you truly believe in the arguments you are making.

ManInBlack wrote:
I can find nothing in the TOS that says I cannot make business calls on a residential line.

I don't think anyone's arguing that. I'm certainly not. If you make some business calls on your residential Vonage line I don't think that would be anything Vonage is worried about.

If you run a home-based business and use your residential Vonage line for that as well as for your regular personal residential phone service it's probably a gray area - could go either way.

If you run a home-based business and use your residential Vonage line exclusively for that you should probably be paying for business use, but I'd clear it with a Vonage sales rep first.

If you rent an office space and purchase a residential Vonage line for use in that office space then I think you've probably crossed the line and should be paying for the business Vonage service. I'm pretty sure it's the latter (and a bit of the home-based business gray area) that Vonage is worried about.

Remember, the original question was why would you pay for a business Vonage line instead of just a residential Vonage line with an added fax line. The context of the question was never really stated, but it seemed to be "If I'm running a business and getting Vonage..." In any case, questions of interpretations of the Vonage TOS are best answered by Vonage representatives. We can debate them all we want on this forum, but we are not the ultimate authority on the subject.
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trekologer
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Joined: Dec 04, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

blakadher wrote:
Remember, the original question was why would you pay for a business Vonage line instead of just a residential Vonage line with an added fax line. The context of the question was never really stated, but it seemed to be "If I'm running a business and getting Vonage..." In any case, questions of interpretations of the Vonage TOS are best answered by Vonage representatives. We can debate them all we want on this forum, but we are not the ultimate authority on the subject.


There are a couple of reasons that you would want to go with a business plan over a residential one (hint: if you are going over 1500 minutes per month during normal business hours, you're probablly going to be asked to move to a business plan anyway). Second, the free fax line has twice the minutes of the residential fax line (500 verses 250). So, at 3.9 cents per minute, you're getting the equivalent of $19.74 worth of fax line for free. Not too shabby. If you're adding additional lines, business lines are discounted (unlike residential ones), unlimited is $44.99, business basic $34.99, and a 500 minute additional line for $12.99. Depending on your requirements, the business plans can be a better deal.
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benq
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Joined: Jan 01, 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This may be a bit off topic but any opinions on any terms of service violations using this device?

http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=1291

If I used this device I would be routing all my family members offnet outbound cell calls through my Vonage ATA. A lot more day time calling will suddenly appear, like close to 1000 mins so I quess I might get a call. But if I can show all the calls are to "personal" numbers how can they charge me for "business" calls.
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mettmann
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Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

hopefully not hijacking the thread here..

I went from utilzing Vonage as an extra line - to now needing it as part of my home based business consultancy - so - has anyone had experience changing from pers to biz ? - and does the ID change to the name I give them?

OR - kill the personal line , and reestablish as biz ( heck, I just filed yesterday! Eek )

in either case - hoping Vonage reports to D&B so my tradelines look good! Very Happy

Gracias!
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†AK and HI residents pay $29.95 shipping. ††Limited time offer. Valid for residents of the United States (&DC), 18 years or older, who open new accounts. Offer good while supplies last and only on new account activations. One kit per account/household. Offer cannot be combined with any other discounts, promotions or plans and is not applicable to past purchases. Good while supplies last. Allow up to 2 weeks for shipping. Other restrictions may apply.

1Unlimited calling and other services for all residential plans are based on normal residential, personal, non-commercial use. A combination of factors is used to determine abnormal use, including but not limited to: the number of unique numbers called, calls forwarded, minutes used and other factors. Subject to our Reasonable Use Policy and Terms of Service.

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