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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:

Maybe when I'm feeling seriously frisky I'll try this one out.


I got frisky. I stand corrected. It works. I sorta see how, since the Vonage router's local address isn't in any paths, so it doesn't really matter that it's trying to be reached on that address. But I would still think that routing would get ugly for the Vonage LAN/WAN since there is another connection between the two (internal wiring). I did a test call and it seemed perfectly OK to me, though.

Anyway, here are several configurations, in case it helps clarify:

1. What I call the "ideal" configuration, with one router doing all the "work", but limited to three Ethernet ports, plus wireless if applicable.



2. The "Chained LAN" configuration that puts both sets of LAN ports different LANs, so resources cannot be shared between the two LANs.



3. The "Shared LAN" configuration that puts both sets of LAN ports on the same logical LAN, DHCP served to all by the primary router.



I'm still not a fan of the #3 configuration, but I can't ague that it seems to be working, so far. The only real advantage it offers is the addition of two new LAN ports, and the ability to have sets of LAN ports apart from each other. However, you could accomplish the same things with a simple hub or switch.



You could also put the Vonage router out "front", of course, in any of these configurations.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
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takabanana
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Suwanee, GA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting. I'm trying to do the same exact setup:
http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic10606.html

I guess I have it currently set up as your #2, but your #3 is interesting.
(in all cases, is the Local LAN IP on the Vonage Router is setup to be 192.168.15.1?)

In Config #3, is it not possible to turn on the wireless on the Vonage Router (2 different SSIDs; one from the Vonage Router and the other from the primary Router) also, and have those Wireless PCs also access the rest of the LAN (off of the primary router)?

I will have to try out Config #3 tonight.
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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

takabanana wrote:


In Config #3, is it not possible to turn on the wireless on the Vonage Router (2 different SSIDs; one from the Vonage Router and the other from the primary Router) also, and have those Wireless PCs also access the rest of the LAN (off of the primary router)?

I will have to try out Config #3 tonight.


In #3, the wireless LAN on the Vonage router would be served up Internet via the incoming WAN port. If NAT is turned off, I would *assume* that they'd get addresses from your WRT54G. However, the same SHOULD have been true of all of your wired clients, too.

#3 is a hack. "Unpredictable Results May Occur". I would be VERY curious to see your results.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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csnet
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Joined: Sep 17, 2005
Posts: 86
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:
However, you could accomplish the same things with a simple hub or switch.


Thanks for the diagrams NateHoy. I also appreciate your remark that the snake appears to be eating its tail in #3.

What is attractive to me about #3 is that the 2nd router is being used as a simple hub or switch without having to add that 3rd piece of hardware.

In #3, perhaps the snake is just admiring its tail and has no plans to consume it.

I have been using the 2nd router as a switch for months, but I too am going to try this #3 approach that Bob has been using so I can have the RTP300 as the 2nd router, instead of the first router.

_________________
ISP: Comcast - 15 Mbps Down / 1.6 Mbps Up
Ambit V10C018.80 Cable Modem
Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router
w/QOS Manual 1440, High to VT2442 port only
Motorola VT2442 using 1 phone jack
Vonage customer since August 25, 2005
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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

csnet wrote:
NateHoy wrote:
However, you could accomplish the same things with a simple hub or switch.


Thanks for the diagrams NateHoy. I also appreciate your remark that the snake appears to be eating its tail in #3.

What is attractive to me about #3 is that the 2nd router is being used as a simple hub or switch without having to add that 3rd piece of hardware.

In #3, perhaps the snake is just admiring its tail and has no plans to consume it.

I have been using the 2nd router as a switch for months, but I too am going to try this #3 approach that Bob has been using so I can have the RTP300 as the 2nd router, instead of the first router.


Oh, I hear ya. I'm going to leave mine hooked up that way for a while so I can test it fairly. The network guy in me is still screaming "THIS CAN'T BE WORKING!" But it does, and the scientific mind says evidence is stronger than belief.

About the only thing I see that could be wrong is a little additional latency. Instead of Internet->NAT/Router->Switch->NAT/Router->Phone, you now have Internet->NAT/Router->Switch->Switch(Bridge cable)->Switch->NAT/Router->Phone as the path.

Sitting here on my laptop on the Vonage router on the "wrong" side of the LAN bridge, my testyourvoip.com scores DO seem impacted, but only VERY slightly, and it could be just random slowness. I did a couple of test calls to my SIP phone and didn't see any noticeable differences. Sounded pretty clear to me...

I don't know. It just seems so... kludgy. Especially with the seemingly "circular" path of WAN->LAN internally and LAN->WAN internally. But none of the lights are blinking wildly, so there's no data feeding back on itself like the aforementioned snake.

But, hell, if it works, there's a NICE way to use a Vonage router as a switch in addition to a Vonage adapter, without needing the extra switch.

If only there was a way to completely sever the internal LAN/WAN connection, though. I still fear some client somehow trying to route out from the LAN, ending up going through the WAN, and ending up on the LAN again. I'm sure some form of recursive loop detector would find it and kill off that route, and that's probably exactly what HAS happened. But...

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
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NateHoy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

OK. First problem with #3. Having trouble getting into the router config page using the remote administration address. Vonage phone line still working. Web/VPN access from either switch is still working. But I cannot drill through to the Vonage router from the switches. This has happened twice after running for a little while, and a reboot of the Vonage router clears it up, but still...


Setting the IP address of the Vonage router to an address within the subnet of my LAN (192.168.1.230) actually allows me to access the Vonage router from the LAN side as opposed to the WAN side. So I'm actually accessing the Vonage router from both interfaces and getting to the administration pages.

This is some really interesting behavior.

Oops. Just got an error from the WRTP54G that LAN and WAN are sharing the same domain, and nothing's working right. So you definitely don't want to change the WRTP54G to have an address within your subnet mask range. The WRTP54G/WAN and WRTP54G/LAN need to be strictly cordoned off.

Fascinating.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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csnet
Vonage Forum Senior
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Joined: Sep 17, 2005
Posts: 86
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:
OK. First problem with #3.

At the first sign of trouble, csnet chickens out from changing his current configuration.

By having the RTP300 1st, its WAN is the only WAN port being used. Having the WRT54G as 2nd router with a static IP in the same domain is another trait added to the others that makes the 2nd router as a switch attractive, because any computer can admin either router without using remote admin.

It appears that if I want to have better QOS, ideal #1 is still the best way to go, using the RTP300 as a phone adapter only.

_________________
ISP: Comcast - 15 Mbps Down / 1.6 Mbps Up
Ambit V10C018.80 Cable Modem
Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router
w/QOS Manual 1440, High to VT2442 port only
Motorola VT2442 using 1 phone jack
Vonage customer since August 25, 2005
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NateHoy
Vonage Forum MVM
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

csnet wrote:
NateHoy wrote:
OK. First problem with #3.

At the first sign of trouble, csnet chickens out from changing his current configuration.

By having the RTP300 1st, its WAN is the only WAN port being used. Having the WRT54G as 2nd router with a static IP in the same domain is another trait added to the others that makes the 2nd router as a switch attractive, because any computer can admin either router without using remote admin.

It appears that if I want to have better QOS, ideal #1 is still the best way to go, using the RTP300 as a phone adapter only.


Buk Buk Buk B'Gawk! Wink

There's a darned good reason why I called #1 "ideal". Refer to my forum signature.

Having said that, other than the fact that the admin page of the WRTP54G is (again) inaccessible, #3 does appear to work. My Vonage line is still up and running, and the QoS of my WRT54G is still very effective.

Still, the loss of the admin page is.. disturbing. I'll run in this crazy-ass configuration for a day or two just to prove it works or not, and I'm going back to config #1.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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takabanana
Vonage Forum Associate
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Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Suwanee, GA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Wow. I got it working exactly the way I wanted to...

I did configuration #3, BUT I also enabled the wireless on the WRT54GP2 to be on, with a different SSID than the WRT54G (which is connected to the cable modem). So now I have 2 wireless networks in the house, with 2 different SSIDs. But any PC (wireless or wired) on either router, can see each other, including NAS, surf the internet, and also see each router's config screen.

I have the WRT54G local LAN IP address to be 192.168.1.1
I have the WRT54GP2 local LAN IP address to be 192.168.1.2
I can access either router's web config from any PC using those IP addresses.

Any PCs that use Wireless or Wired onto the WRT54GP2 gets DHCP'd from the WRT54G, and gets their gateway set to 192.168.1.1. (DHCP, NAT, Firewall, QoS, are all turned off on the WRT54GP2).

And my Vonage phone works! exactly the way I wanted it!

Now I hope that the Vonage voice quality stays up.

Anyone else try this? Works great here.
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takabanana
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Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Suwanee, GA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

By the way, so with this configuration I have (read above), will Vonage still have access to the WRT54GP2, or do I need to port forward (on the WRT54G) specific ports for them to be able to "see" and get to it, for tech support (firmware updates and the "special" Voice menu that no one knows the password to)?

Also, any hints/suggestions on how to configure the WRT54G (with DD-WRT v23) and/or the WRT54GP2 to have the best QoS settings for Vonage voice quality?

Thanks in advance.
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