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exitwound
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Joined: Sep 05, 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:18 pm    Post subject: Update: Not just Drops from Cells anymore. RT31P2 Reply with quote Back to top

I had posted back a bit about my calls being dropped to those on cell phones. (See Here: http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic8223.html) My original TestYourVOIP settings are in there. Seems as if now I'm dropping all calls, regardless of whom I'm talking and what type of connection. Here is a sample received call from last week:

Code:
Dec 17, 2005 01:13 AM From: 1425761****  Duration: 00:06:00
Dec 17, 2005 12:24 AM From: 1425761****  Duration: 00:48:00    
Dec 17, 2005 12:11 AM From: 1425761****  Duration: 00:14:00   
Dec 17, 2005 12:00 AM From: 1425761****  Duration: 00:11:00   
Dec 16, 2005 11:54 PM From: 1425761****  Duration: 00:06:00   
Dec 16, 2005 11:47 PM From: 1425761****  Duration: 00:07:00   
Dec 16, 2005 11:46 PM From: 1425761****  Duration: 00:01:00


Calls are being dropped from both landlines, and cellphones. It could occur 1 minutes into the call as that phone call shows, or it could be 48 minutes into it. There is no correlation between time of day, what I'm doing online, the way the router is connected on the network, or anything else that I can figure.

My Current TestYourVOIP.com Results
Code:
Media Quality
MOS   
    4.4 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)    
    
 
Degradation Sources
  Codec   0.58   100.0%   
  Latency   0.00   0.0%   
  Packet Discards   0.00   0.0%   
  Packet Loss   0.00   0.0%   
Codec   G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
 20ms RTP payload,
 80kbps IP BW)   
Round-Trip
Latency   119 ms   
Packet Discards   0.0%    
Packet Loss   0.0%    
Loss Periods   
Min:   0 ms   
Avg:   0 ms   
Max:   0 ms   
No Loss   
Jitter   
Min:   0 ms   
Avg:   1 ms   
Max:   11 ms   
 Signaling Quality
Post-Dial Delay   71 ms   
Call Setup Time   81 ms   
Media Delay   221 ms   
    
MOS Analysis FROM Boston To You
 
 Media Quality
MOS   
    4.3 / 5.0
(Best with G.711 is 4.4)    
    
 
Degradation Sources
  Codec   0.58   82.6%   
  Latency   0.00   0.0%   
  Packet Discards   0.12   17.4%   
  Packet Loss   0.00   0.0%   
Codec   G.711 (PCM at 64kbps,
 20ms RTP payload,
 80kbps IP BW)   
Round-Trip
Latency   119 ms   
Packet Discards   0.5%    
Packet Loss   0.0%    
Loss Periods   
Min:   20 ms   
Avg:   20 ms   
Max:   20 ms   
Random Loss   
Jitter   
Min:   0 ms   
Avg:   0 ms   
Max:   20 ms   
 Signaling Quality
Post-Pickup Delay   116 ms   
Call Setup Time   113 ms   
Media Delay   151 ms


BroadbandReports.com Line Quality Test
Click Here for The Results
What is interesting in this is that it shows that I've failed the low bandwith and medium bandwith tests, with a high amount of fail. I do not know how to translate this to Voip conditions yet.

My Questions
1.) Could the phone I'm using (AT&T 1818 w/ Called ID) be a problem?
2.) The router runs hot, and reboots itself multiple times during the day. (See here for my thread concerning that: http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic2237.html). I do not know if the heat could be causing the reboots and drops, or if the line quality might be dropping. Which is more likely?
3.) Could the router be dumb and need to be replaced?

Any help would be great.
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Steve48
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Vonage Forum <b>MVM</b>


Joined: Aug 30, 2005
Posts: 4777

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Update: Not just Drops from Cells anymore. RT31P2 Reply with quote Back to top

exitwound wrote:

My Questions
1.) Could the phone I'm using (AT&T 1818 w/ Called ID) be a problem?
2.) The router runs hot, and reboots itself multiple times during the day. (See here for my thread concerning that: http://www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic2237.html). I do not know if the heat could be causing the reboots and drops, or if the line quality might be dropping. Which is more likely?
3.) Could the router be dumb and need to be replaced?


I don't see any reason to suspect the phone, but it never hurts to try the simplest analog phone that you can find. I'm more concerned about the router running hot and the odd failures on the broadband test. Do you get the same results if you remove the adapter from the circuit? If so, you may have an ISP issue. If not, I'd suspect that the adapter is going south. I think it's time for a call to customer service.

_________________
Steve Gray
Orlando, FL
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Trinijoy
Vonage Forum Senior
Vonage Forum Senior


Joined: Dec 22, 2005
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

What do you mean the router is resetting itself? Do you mean the lights are flickering, or are you losing internet? Because if you lose interent, the router will seem to reset but it's just getting signal back from the internet. The first thing you always see is if you are losing internet by hooking up your cable modem directly for a couple of das.

If the router smells like it's BURNING like electric smell, then it's time for a new one. Most agents will hear that comment and replace it. MOST of the time, some of them want to do troubleshooting, so pleas work with them.
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exitwound
Vonage Forum Junior
Vonage Forum Junior


Joined: Sep 05, 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Right now here is the setup:

Modem --> Belkin 4port Router --> 3 machines and the Linksys Rt31P2

Only because...the Linksys would decide to freeze. Computers would not be able to access the internet, and the linksys would refuse to renew IPs, phone would have a dialtone but not accept any calls. To the caller, they'd get rings, but i wouldn't hear it.

So i added the Belkin so the PCs would stay online. The Linksys' phone port lights both go solid on, then solid off, then one at the time they flash (line 1 then line 2), then Line1 stays solid as it's online with Vonage. This happens 3 to 4 times a day.

The router does not smell burned. It's just warm. The belkin is cool to the touch. This is a very warm router.
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Steve48
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Joined: Aug 30, 2005
Posts: 4777

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So without the Belkin your computers were losing internet service, but with the Belkin they're solid and just the phone is intermittent? If so, it sounds more and more as if the adapter is going. Time for that call.

_________________
Steve Gray
Orlando, FL
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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

exitwound wrote:
Right now here is the setup:

Modem --> Belkin 4port Router --> 3 machines and the Linksys Rt31P2

Only because...the Linksys would decide to freeze. Computers would not be able to access the internet, and the linksys would refuse to renew IPs, phone would have a dialtone but not accept any calls. To the caller, they'd get rings, but i wouldn't hear it.

So i added the Belkin so the PCs would stay online. The Linksys' phone port lights both go solid on, then solid off, then one at the time they flash (line 1 then line 2), then Line1 stays solid as it's online with Vonage. This happens 3 to 4 times a day.

The router does not smell burned. It's just warm. The belkin is cool to the touch. This is a very warm router.


If you use BitTorrent or other "heavy connection" applications, don't waste any more effort trying to get a Vonage (or any stock Linksys) router to handle the traffic. They can't do it.

I have a WRTP54G, and my life is so much easier since I put it behind a decent router (WRT54G with aftermarket firmware)

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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exitwound
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Joined: Sep 05, 2005
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I only infrequently download using Torrent. And to be honest, I haven't had any problems with it. But pretty much every night, and sometimes also during the day, all activity would cease, and I'd be kicked offline. The router apears to be fine from the outside, but I can't even connect to the admin pages in it.

And yes, the belkin router is rock solid. Only the LInksys seems to freeze up, regardless of whether it's the only router in the line or not.
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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

exitwound wrote:
I only infrequently download using Torrent. And to be honest, I haven't had any problems with it. But pretty much every night, and sometimes also during the day, all activity would cease, and I'd be kicked offline. The router apears to be fine from the outside, but I can't even connect to the admin pages in it.

And yes, the belkin router is rock solid. Only the LInksys seems to freeze up, regardless of whether it's the only router in the line or not.


Here's what happens (OK, happened with my WRTP54G, and I'm taking a wild stab that it's happening to you - it's a known Linksys problem).

Linksys routers, by default, treat all "active" IP connections as "active" for a default timeout of 5 days. In other words, a connection that is still known as active needs to be idle for 5 days before the router sits up and says "Woah nelly! This bad boy isn't being used!"

The routers, by default, are allocated a connections table of about 2,000 connections.

So, as long as you don't have more than 2,000 connections made and not dropped in a week, hey, they're great routers.

But BitTorrent can make and "dirty drop" 2,000 connections before breakfast. And a number of other applications can do the same, P2P or no.

Symptoms:

1. Cannot log into Admin.
2. Connections to already-loaded web sites appear to work, sometimes (they are already in the active connections table), but no new connections will work.
3. Restart of router will clear up the problem INSTANTLY.

Other issue with many stock Linksys routers, including the Vonage units:

DNS cache in them stinks. To get around this, manually code your ISP's DNS servers in the admin page of the Vonage router and turn off its DNS cache. This will force the router's clients to go directly out to the Internet to get their DNS information, saving the router a lot of work.

And finally:

Remember - Vonage routers are Linksys routers with a LOT of extra stuff going on. Every feature you can turn off frees up memory and processor for Vonage. After installing a WRT54G in front of my WRTP54G, my connections are faster, my calls are clearer, and nothing gets rebooted any more, either on its own or by me. There's no need.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
My Vonage Self-Help Guides: http://vonage.nmhoy.net
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Steve48
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Joined: Aug 30, 2005
Posts: 4777

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NateHoy wrote:


Here's what happens (OK, happened with my WRTP54G, and I'm taking a wild stab that it's happening to you - it's a known Linksys problem).

Linksys routers, by default, treat all "active" IP connections as "active" for a default timeout of 5 days. In other words, a connection that is still known as active needs to be idle for 5 days before the router sits up and says "Woah nelly! This bad boy isn't being used!"


Can this be changed to a quicker timeout?

NateHoy wrote:
And finally:

Remember - Vonage routers are Linksys routers with a LOT of extra stuff going on. Every feature you can turn off frees up memory and processor for Vonage. After installing a WRT54G in front of my WRTP54G, my connections are faster, my calls are clearer, and nothing gets rebooted any more, either on its own or by me. There's no need.


But Exitwound continues to have problems with the Linksys, even though he's put it behind the Belkin. This suggests that his problem is different from yours. Or am I missing something?

_________________
Steve Gray
Orlando, FL
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NateHoy
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Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Posts: 2257
Location: New England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Steve48 wrote:

Can this be changed to a quicker timeout?


Sure, if you could get access to change the TCP timeout vaues. The fix is well documented. But Linksys doesn't allow access to those values - for most Linksys routers you need third party firmware to get access, and Vonage doesn't use the sort of Linksys router you can get third party firmware for. So, for Vonage routers, the answer is no.

And I called Customer Service several times, asking that this be changed, even providing them with the startup command I wanted to have entered into my firmware. In two cases, I actually (after a few hours on the phone) got the rep to enter a ticket to Engineering with a "guaranteed call back in 24 hours". That was back in September and October. I stopped waiting for them to call back, and got a real router.

Steve48 wrote:
tinues to have problems with the Linksys, even though he's put it behind the Belkin. This suggests that his problem is different from yours. Or am I missing something?


No, that was just a generic statement, to say that the less load you put on Vonage gear, the better. Of course, if he's turned off everything but the Vonage side of the Vonage router, and it's still failing, then the Vonage router could very well be bad. Or his Belkin (a name I have little respect for in routing gear, to be blunt) could be bad. Or both.

_________________
Comcast Cable (3m down / 256k up) -> Linksys BEFCMU10 v2 (DOCSIS 1.0) -> WRT54G v4 ("Tomato" firmware) -> the rest of my network including a WRTP54G (Firmware: 5.01.04)
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